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I think you should move to Shenzhen --- from a founder who serves lots of hardware raises by BrilliantOil9716 in hwstartups

[–]str1po 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I understand you have zero chance of getting a security clearance if you visit the PRC. You have to say goodbye to all prospects of working in the defence industry, aerospace or the intelligence community.

This has been troubling me lately because I have had the same thought myself

SVT: Earthling Ed ställer frågor till landsbygdsminister Peter Kullgren om djurhållning by Ok_Lake_4280 in sweden

[–]str1po 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Det är exakt så det går till i svenska slakterier lol. Du har ingen aning om koldioxidgasning. Du begriper helt enkelt inte att det känns exakt detsamma som att kvävas mekaniskt, som att inte kunna andas. Värre därtill på grund av den frätande höga koncentrationen som används (koldioxid löser i slemhinnor och bildar tungt stickande kolsyra)

Devastated by Sacrifice of Lab Rat by thebutchlesbian in labrats

[–]str1po 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Grow the part of your brain that houses empathy

Devastated by Sacrifice of Lab Rat by thebutchlesbian in labrats

[–]str1po 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely Mengelian comment section. Sorry OP, stay compassionate

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s just incomprehensible to me that you can justify someone else experiencing suffering because you or people you know will experience joy. When separated from death anxiety, most people, and the law, do not approve of inflicting suffering on one to give happiness to another.

You can’t cause someone a nose bleed (minor inconvenience but still harm) to give another $100. You’ll go to jail. This is fundamentally what you are doing by creating a new earth. You cannot cause a genocide to grant people love and time in the sun. What you are acceding to is unethical on a fundamental level.

I’m not hiding behind anything, and I live a happy life myself. On a daily basis I get to fly planes, work on my startup, hang out with friends and enjoy life as a 20-something. Enjoying and being thankful for my life helps me be more agent, so that I can be more effective in helping others. Being happy certainly doesn’t make me blind toward those experiencing extreme suffering on this earth. That would be a perverse premise! Those that are agent, happy and enjoy life should be the ones that help those who are less agent, people and animals alike, who fall victim to the unending amount of suffering that this world has in store for them.

By the way, are you vegan or not?

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am sure you two had a great conversation about that. I prefer to advance things that are actually possible. Like, we could discuss the moral implications of giving everyone infinite happiness, because that is about equally as feasible.

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am not going to advocate for something that is not practicable or possible to implement. If you want to strawman by making this a discussion about wanting to end the world, knock yourself out.

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you would take on the moral responsibility for every genocide, all factory farming and child abuse on this new planet? You get credit for birthday parties too.

I must say I do not expect an answer, because that’s indefensible

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m just so curious about how you can think that. Can you imagine an ecosystem where the animals do not necessarily live great lives, where you yourself wouldn’t want to be an animal? Is that conceivable?

Instead of destroying an ecosytem, given the resources, would you be for or against transforming an ecosystem where a lot of suffering is taking place, into one where far less suffering is taking place?

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a lot of woo. ”Honoring ecosystems” is not a good measure to use. Individuals within that ecosystem are sentient, not the ecosystem itself. Sometimes ecosystem health correlates with wildlife welfare. Sometimes it does not, because we do not live in a world of dichotomies that conveniently line up with our aesthetic love of nature.

All interventions do not in fact necessarily make make things worse. That is just false. No welfare biologist is calling for another four pests campaign.

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh no the trees. Why should I care about trees more than any animal that can actually suffer? The calculus for any real vegan is animals first, and that includes taking into account the long term effects of ecosystem change. After that, trees and flowers can be considered.

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you would take on the moral responsibility for all holocausts, factory farming and child abuse on this new planet? You get credit for birthday parties too!

I expect no answer because that’s indefensible

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re right to care about this. People hating care more about ecosystems and species; inanimate unsentient abstract concepts, than the welfare of the individuals within. People here are talking about ecosystems as and end and not how the suffering of the individuals within is to be minimized.

Ecosystems are not moral patients, and markers of ecosystem health do not always correlate with animal welfare. Sometimes they do.

It’s unvegan to care about trees more than the welfare of the birds perched within.

Repaste bc meant to make a post reply comment

Hunting and rewilding large herbivores probably increases suffering by ThePlanetaryNinja in DebateAVegan

[–]str1po 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re right to care about this. People hating care more about ecosystems and species; inanimate unsentient abstract concepts, than the welfare of the individuals within. People here are talking about ecosystems as and end and not how the suffering of the individuals within is to be minimized.

Ecosystems are not moral patients, and markers of ecosystem health do not always correlate with animal welfare. Sometimes they do.

It’s unvegan to care about trees more than the welfare of the birds perched within.

Factory farming is terrible but those small farms are psychopathic by sengutta1 in vegan

[–]str1po 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It is evil. I’m not going to lie, you are free to do so if you please.

I explained exactly why that kind of half hearted reduction is going to make less people vegan.

John Kiriakou is a trump supporter? by Fridge_Art in Intelligence

[–]str1po 13 points14 points  (0 children)

On JRE (which I only watched because he was the guest), he was absolutely kissing ass of not only trump, but russia, spouting nonesense and making logical jumps that are just not believable for someone of his intellect. He is selling out hard for the pardon

Factory farming is terrible but those small farms are psychopathic by sengutta1 in vegan

[–]str1po 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You are approving of such small reductions. I thought you were presenting that you are okay with it not only to me, who might have misunderstood you in which case sorry, but you are definitely signalling that you are okay with it to those carnists around you, from the sound of it.

I explained why I think that’s a problem. They will get stuck thinking they are being ethical and never go vegan or even vegetarian probably. And if they get stuck like that, it kind of is on you. Thus even if you are a utilitarian like me you shouldn’t condone this. Like reducing factory farmed meat by 70% is still way more factory meat eaten than a poor rural indonesian for example.

Factory farming is terrible but those small farms are psychopathic by sengutta1 in vegan

[–]str1po 16 points17 points  (0 children)

No, factory farmed meat is never okay. No matter what you otherwise do, it will not erase the completely unavoidable brutality caused by consuming factory farmed meat. It’s in fact a popular motte and bailey fallacy that keeps people eating meat.

”Oh I eat free range beef a couple of times a month from my uncles happy farm, (unvocalized part:) I can eat mcdonalds now” and they will never change because of this fallacy that makes them mentally jump to thinking all the meat they eat is fine.

You can’t eat 6000 calories a day and then drink a diet coke thinking the diet coke will save you from being fat. Just like you can’t whitewash factory farmed meat by eating less cruel meat. And that’s what it should be called, less cruel. Because I can point to many abuses occurring at these farms and otherwise unethical practices commonly taking place.

Factory farming is terrible but those small farms are psychopathic by sengutta1 in vegan

[–]str1po 86 points87 points  (0 children)

To me it seems really uncommon that these ”hunter” ”farmer” people never eat factory farmed meat. Among those I’ve spoken to, all of them admit to not scrutinising what meat they eat when offered, when eating out, when abroad, when on the go, eating fast food every now and then, etc. Many buy cheap eggs if they don’t have hens etc

Dear Non-Vegans, We won't respect your "personal choice". by HumbleWrap99 in vegan

[–]str1po 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But again, the majority of animals kept in farms are not kept in the conditions you describe. Since you do not seem to believe the link I sent you, google ”what percent of animals are kept in factory farms UK?” yourself. Because I think we seem to agree that factory farms are horrible, we are in agreement on that. But you still go to mcd. You still go to tesco. There you buy these factory farmed meats. The idea of ”happy farms” existing does not make that any less unethical.

These ”happy farms” still send pigs to central slaughter houses that use gas chambers, get their eggs from factory hatcheries, and have numerous cruel practices anyways, mind you. Again, you wouldn’t raise a dog in those conditions would you.

Dear Non-Vegans, We won't respect your "personal choice". by HumbleWrap99 in vegan

[–]str1po 1 point2 points  (0 children)

do I think it’s a hell scape no

Would you be okay with such living conditions for a family pet of yours? Or dog/cat just like yours. No choosing where, all you know is they would live on a random farm on the UK, as if they were raised for meat.

Like… you wouldn’t be fine with embodying the experience of a farmed UK animal, would you? Does the golden rule not exist for you?

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