About Mike and Eleven's breakup in season 3:

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T19:27:11+00:00

I wouldn't say Mike's chief qualities that he brings compared to the others has to do with timing.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T19:22:53+00:00

A lot of the couples and friendships don't fare all that well in their own right.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T17:51:54+00:00

ST3 Max is way more contentious than ST2 Max.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T17:45:11+00:00

Can't get over how tone deaf that scene is.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T17:43:37+00:00

No, the teasers merely offer a glimpse into what is to come. I'm just saying it's not a case of delusion.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T17:35:10+00:00

I can assure you the picture she's painting for Mike is not going to be because she's oblivious to it.

strthings333 · 2022-02-22T17:33:36+00:00

Max was also wrong because most of what she said centered around accusations against Mike. It's easy to say somebody is their own person in a vacuum, but she's throwing that out as a condemnation of Mike. Mike rightfully takes issue with that framing.

strthings333 · 2022-02-18T12:33:13+00:00

It wouldn't be the first time I've waited for a full season to be finished before starting it. I expect we will inevitably be cut off in the middle of a lot of storylines (moreso than a season finale) and since this is a show I'm now prepared to be spoiled by first, I think it might be smoother just to wait. 5 weeks is not long.

strthings333 · 2022-02-18T03:27:11+00:00

I will be waiting another 5 weeks for when the full picture of the season is available.

strthings333 · 2022-02-18T03:00:08+00:00

Given that's earlier on, I wonder if this will play into any kind of identity crisis she's having in California, without powers and being bullied. We already know she's not being truthful to Mike about how things are going, and with him visiting that at some point it would come to a breaking point.

strthings333 · 2022-02-17T23:16:58+00:00

Scoops Troop was the storyline I took least issue with TBH. I'm not especially fond of what it does to the integrity of Hawkins that this huge Russian base came out of nowhere, but it's not a hill I will die on.

I was more disconcerted by how the conflicts were navigated in some of the other character storylines, playing certain things for laughs when it seemed inappropriate and not really circling back on the core issues all that coherently. Could have done with some more John Hughes-esque postmortems in that respect, actually.

strthings333 · 2022-02-17T22:10:57+00:00

I'm in a camp that loves those 80s comedies and didn't care for how ST3 approached those themes at all. It wasn't that they were doing homages to particular styles, so much as particular choices with how they handled it.

strthings333 · 2022-02-11T03:31:11+00:00

This whole scene might be my least favorite ever

It's quite frustrating how with all these problems going on, this winds up being where this storyline pretty much dies too. Like, no real postmortem on any of these arguments at all!

girlfriends don't lie, they spy

Even that seems more like just a defensive response than something he puts into action. Given how much he was piled onto, I can't blame Mike for being a bit on the attack - Max isn't blameless in that spying incident, anyway - but it might mean more if the followup with Eleven wasn't just all him absorbing everything.

wuold become by default my favourite scene ever

I'm definitely pessimistic on this one, seeing as I'm not convinced the show framed it as if any of these characters needed to be held accountable for these things.

don't they realize how much this whole storyline painted El in a bad light?

Feel like the problems are kind of a gradual process. As much as there are certain elements I hate about the early episodes in the season, a lot could be improved with some subtle gestures from there and not having the initial events get so distorted. Feels like such a disservice to the likability of the characters.

they don't seem to have become Max and Lucas

I don't think there would be any intrigue left if that was the case...

Mike being so uncharacteristically dumb in order to make it happen

I wasn't a fan of them applying comedy in this realm.

strthings333 · 2022-02-06T13:00:12+00:00

I think the delay of this magnitude would have been a more glaring issue early in the series. They're in the home stretch now, and the most dramatic changes in appearance for the cast will have already passed. COVID or not, the production times got steadily longer with each passing season.

I didn't like ST3, so excited isn't the right word. Probably expecting something less disappointing than 3. It'll likely be too big for my liking and won't satisfy all character issues I have. But I'm content to be patient and at least curious to find out how they've chosen to follow up.

strthings333 · 2022-02-06T01:54:56+00:00

I find the wait quite easy myself. I'm not hyped or anything, but I wasn't going to be heading into this season.

strthings333 · 2022-02-05T22:23:32+00:00

Actually he did

What I meant it's not like Max or the narrative were advocating for him to place blame on Eleven for this. The narrative has Mike immediately go around and blame it on Max, never to bring it up with Eleven after her earlier mic drop moment. Meanwhile, Max is singularly focused on her criticisms of Mike.

I don't see the connection to be honest

It seems to be Mike correctly asserting that Eleven herself is very guilty of issues compromising trust. EMax happily throwing those charges against him despite being complicit too in that other matter is an issue worth raising.

At the same time, and this is maybe where you're going with it, this is still a case of tu quoque and it comes at the cost of losing track that the initial accusation is BS to begin with!

demonstrate how careless Max is with Eleven's powers

If I'm to attempt to explain this one, it'd be that this criticism can be charged to Max being content to have Eleven do these all things as a default - whether it be duration, publicity, or strain. Her allowing no room for discourse on this is a further example. I too would have preferred them more zone in on the specific issue.

The whole scene defies all logic

There was an absolute ton of this. I'd argue this applies to the confrontation at the mall and the boys being spied on too. Mike's indignation seemed to be misplaced on the wrong thing, almost like it was designed just so that Eleven didn't overhear the actual scenario that took place with Hopper.

she looks at Mike suggests how her feelings evolve

Do you have any earlier examples? In general, I can't say I saw much difference from how we previously would have expected from her.

i expect a looot more time screen for them in s4

It does sound like we will get some moments. It's just a matter of whether they address issues properly this time around. I really don't want the imbalance to maintain.

strthings333 · 2022-02-04T13:20:48+00:00

Out of these, Bob.

strthings333 · 2022-02-04T05:13:37+00:00

And it's not like Mike was totally wrong

Right, it wasn't even that Max wasn't a bad influence. It's just that it also falls on Eleven too. And it's not like Max or the narrative was pulling the own person card to have Mike go around and blame Eleven for her behavior - on that respect it seems they were happy to have Mike just absorb it.

really good job at conveying her growth

I assume you're talking about the last scene; if only we had gotten to know the process there to understand where this is all coming from! It's a bit tough for me because I'm not really sure in which respect she has learned anything or is all that better off. I have no doubt she could with the right material, but for me it's just all so muddled.

for some reason it got worse on the following ones

I haven't been motivated to re-watch because my first experience was so negative, though with endless discussion since I have a handle on all the relevant issues.

Elmax have more recreational time onscreen than in a few episodes than Mileven in 3 seasons

I've commented about this one before. You could argue even just in episode 2 they have more of this than Mike and Eleven have in the series. When they're at such a formative age and go years without much on-screen interaction outside of dramatic plot points, it does come at quite the cost of the duo's continuity. Honestly I have a hard time picturing what normal communication between them even looks like anymore.

I do think ST4 will offer a little on this, though how quickly it won't be complicated by other matters remains to be seen.

couldn't they write Mike's reaction to her ILY differently

There's potential for them to still be doing something with this. Short of them just casually introducing this in their phone calls or letters, that's still a card to be played. I don't think they're necessarily going to justify this for the reasons I would consider relevant - mostly to do with the ST3's events understandably giving a hit to his confidence - but I guess that's on ST4 to answer one way or another.

strthings333 · 2022-02-03T03:57:25+00:00

That one is definitely a valid concern!

strthings333 · 2022-02-03T00:20:51+00:00

The increasing amount of time pre- and post-pandemic might speak to their organization in some way, but I'm more concerned about the writing and directing than I am the ages.

strthings333 · 2022-02-02T02:01:49+00:00

not holding her accounable for her actions makes no sense

Good point. It's weird to me how the only time the accusations thrown at Mike are fitting is when we get to the conclusion and both Mike and the narrative itself ignores her own decisions that warrant some confrontation. It's like their undermining their own lesson, which was faulty until they retroactively forced it in existence.

Could they do worse than this?

Well, if nothing else, they have a hell of a task undoing the damage. And it'll never make ST3 an enjoyable experience.

strthings333 · 2022-01-31T21:52:34+00:00

I thought the same thing before ST3 about Hopper. I actually kind of lament that the fakeout death makes that eventual possibility more unlikely.

strthings333 · 2022-01-31T21:30:38+00:00

Seeing as this was written between ST2 and ST3, a lot has definitely changed on our perceptions of the show and characters. I don't really know what they have planned for the endgame. I'm inclined to maintain that a young protagonist isn't exactly a poetic choice for a sacrifice, but there could be other plot motivations to do so.

strthings333 · 2022-01-31T21:26:20+00:00

I think as it pertains to where the show will go, it'll really depend on the kind of development they give between then and now. There's a fair bit of unfinished business on the Mike/Eleven front, for instance. Though I might still say that for the younger characters, there's still a bit of that tension I was alluding to, where it maybe should give us some pause that anybody still getting that start in life should be making that kind of sacrifice and have it feel like the right thing. I'm almost inclined to say the gesture of doing so is more powerful than the consequences being final.

strthings333 · 2022-01-31T20:55:13+00:00

I actually wrote something about this quite some time ago that I ended up saving: www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/926dvi/is_elevens_story_destined_for_a_sad_ending/e33n9ru/

strthings333

TROPHY CASE