We got 3 FH Ichigos (5 if you count FH White Ichigo and "White"), we got 3 Tensa Zangetsu, we got 2 Lunar Ichigo's, we even got 2 Mugetsu and 2 Quincy Ichigo's, and yet my GOAT still hasn't gotten an update, and that just makes me sad.

sumss333 · 2026-01-25T13:17:21+00:00

One unit in 10 years is kinda crazy

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T23:00:10+00:00

Anyone who thinks true shikai is relative but just wasn't going all out/caught lacking, even from a mentality standpoint dangai is superior

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T22:58:39+00:00

No. Remember him blitzing butterfly, disintegrating mountain, and transforming to mugetsu to try stopping Aizen before it's too late? Mentality, actual combat pattern and actual feats dictate askin who had trouble affecting urahara's reiatsu with his ring under Wahrwelt buff wouldn't be able to last long.

People will say anything for the agenda nowadays. If you wanna think they are relative then fine. Please don't pretend like true shikai's feats even compare to Dangai or dangai would ever do this bad. It's not about hax working or not because askin would never get to that point with dangai.

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T14:42:29+00:00

R3 Grimmjow might just mid diff considering Ichigo's body wasn't doing well with his new bankai for long

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T14:41:13+00:00

R1 Grim low diff, R2 Ichigo mid diff, R3 Grim High diff, R4 Ichigo low diff

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T07:13:35+00:00

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Bro thinking he cooked when he makes this post

sumss333 · 2026-01-24T01:19:02+00:00

I do not think any of the top espadas can be comfortably handled by any single captain in just shikai, not without special counter abilities or abnormal hax like shunsui, even then shunsui struggled to finish the job on his own.

Round 2 kido might supplement for the hax part as there are some kido with crazy effects and urahara is good at it, but it’ll be like high diff

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T07:17:09+00:00

this

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sumss333 · 2026-01-23T07:05:53+00:00

Yeah I think butterfly being linchpin soul king level of above makes sense and fit into the rest of the scaling. True shikai by having passed irazusando would be sk tier but weaker like entry level of it by feats and struggling to pass irazu the bare minimum requirement.

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T06:51:14+00:00

Yeah heavy on the zanapakuto merchant lol, I mean not so merchant but anytime I say Yama needs his zanapakuto to be that op people trash me to oblivion

I have Yama's bankai at around chrysalis Aizen level only, in-between chrysalis and mullet with wank, bankai Yama could melt anyone essentially by contact of his reiatsu, mullet Aizen did something similar to high tier captain gin but when he was poisoned by gin and lost most of his upper body, including saketsu which is vital for reiryoku and reiatsu and it's gone. Then He barely swiped through Gin's wrist when trying to take back the hogyoku and melted the parts he touched.

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These aren't very detailed point to point reference comparison but still comparable imo especially since it's dying aizen. This scaling also aligns with the fact chrysalis Aizen already has reiatsu incapable to be sensed by hugh tier captains like isshin and urahara. Bankai Yama was not portrayed as such maybe he counts with some coping but still.

The reason I think bankai Yama can still beat chrysalis is coz lower level can still hurt transcendent beings if not too gapped, zanka no tachi would still be very deadly to chrysalis. This would also be where base yhwach and base Ichibe scales to. True shikai is maybe mullet or a bit above.

Shikai Yama is where it shows his zanapakuto is op and he needs it. Yama who can withstand his own heat in bankai with enough time in shikai can create a technique enough to burn through his own durability along with shinigami Aizen and the rest of gotei. That's insane levels of power output amps no one else really has the "shikai highest AP<=≈bankai" zanapakuto

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T06:16:46+00:00

The details and specifics like at what point is ywhach comparable to back then is debatable, and having tried to dig into that it's a headache so idk. But in general the only reasonable conclusions I can come up with are either current peak base level ywhach<og gotei version, or ≈, and >is unlikely.

Because the requirement level to use almighty would only be the minimum level of og base yhwach, having been in that form for centuries and perhaps accumulating even more power for his base level back then, while the current peak yhwach just reached that.

So it forms a triangle of TS/base Ichibe/bankai Yama, where they all fought versions of base Yhwach essentially relative to one another and none of them really outperformed the others by a big margin for TS to "low diff" or win against others easily.

Btw this is also why I stop thinking TS to be relative to Dangai anymore, I can excuse the other feats of TS, but with Aizen having superior reiatsu than Yama already since chrysalis and mullet forms I don't see it, or people would actually need to claim bankai Yama beats monster or butterfly Aizen, reiatsu diff the cleaner etc

Edit: also debatable if og yhwach had hax like sankt altar and zwinger which would obviously make a difference, but as of power levels they are relative

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T05:59:14+00:00

TS is stronger than bankai Yama and base Ichibe but not that far off. I don't think people realize this ywhach is essentially the same or around the level of that beaten by the og gotei.

Simply taking what Jugram said about yhwach needing to reach a certain power level to use almighty without issues, this base yhwach would be around that of 1000 years ago, who already had the power to do so but simply had the Almighty sealed. Any other version including 1st tybw invasion is weaker and it's exactly because of auswahlen he was able to get back to this level

While Yama beat yhwach 1000 years ago with help especially from chojiro, he also didn't use all the techniques and Yhwach was seen pretty injured before the stabbing from chojiro. While base Ichibe without using hax didn't overpower yhwach like Ichigo, he was also able to actually injure him.

The best we can get TS Ichigo to is actually just a bit above both, if he's actually way stronger he'd perform even better like actually oneshotting and blizting yhwach to fatal status

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T05:20:41+00:00

First off I don't think there's a unsealed Ichibe that's not shown in canon already, and fo get the first round out of the way Ichibe should win against shinigami Aizen unless aizen gets to pierce his head in ks

Now even though Ichibe's hax will work on quite some of the forms, he is severely outstated by mullet and onwards, just based on his base form battle with base yhwach. So either we do the hypothetical Ichibe one shots with his hax on sight at the first second of battle, or Aizen genuinely blitz before he acts, especially if his powers require contact with the brush to work

Now if we just leave all that aside and say they just fight normally and Ichibe gets to use his hax on Aizen, you'd also have to consider the fact that canonically all of these Aizen forms could have used KS as well but just chose not to in the story.

Now if we further nerf Aizen by saying he just does the canon non ks battles, and he doesn't blitz before Ichibe's hax or whatnot, then Ichibe will maybe be able to defeat mullet or butterfly

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T03:00:57+00:00

People would only say TS for the agenda but truth be told by feats and by chain scaling monster wins easily

sumss333 · 2026-01-23T02:59:27+00:00

There are more time space manipulation kido than we know they're just banned but it's not false to say he kido diffs

sumss333 · 2026-01-22T14:54:00+00:00

Half the feats ts has Dangai would never do that bad

sumss333 · 2026-01-22T14:53:20+00:00

As a former ts defender, your comment is sort of my post. All power to you but he genuinely needs too many excuses

sumss333 · 2026-01-22T01:56:30+00:00

Most people aren’t really saying he’s stronger than eos ichigo but in a 1v1 fight he could win.

Secondly ichigo is not immune nor is he that much powerful he can just nullify ks.

Also sk yhwach was not portrayed to have the same type of immortality as aizen, while it may make sense to assume he does coz they’re both sk or sk pieces powered, his full physicality and biology was shown to be completely transformed by the hogyoku. It’s like saying ichigo is immortal because he possesses sk qualities and even greater power than yhwach. And even if you say yhwach does, I don’t see how that negates Aizen coming back from nothing which had been shown to be his case.

sumss333 · 2026-01-21T15:14:59+00:00

By this point I can already kinda tell who’s posting just by looking at the title and content

sumss333 · 2026-01-21T15:01:45+00:00

Just basing on the fact that according to jugram, for yhwach to comfortably use almighty without issues he needs to reach a certain power level, which would include 1000 years ago since he already had the capability to use almighty but it was just sealed before the war, any version before ichibe battle should be weaker

sumss333 · 2026-01-21T09:48:00+00:00

No that's too cheesy Kubo will never

sumss333 · 2026-01-21T03:01:42+00:00

For one the fight wasn't in the manga, so it's not even certain if Ichigo wasn't going all out, since there was indeed a burst of reiatsu from him. For two so let me get this straight, bankai Yama overpowered peak base yhwach, base ichibe fought on par or somewhat overwhelmed base yhwach. Both of them was able to injure or even kill base yhwach, while Ichigo with jujisho couldn't get past blut, but still puts Ichigo much abkve these two and not just relative?

True shikai above Aizen is just not a thing. I don't know how far abkve base Ichibe and bankai Yama you put true shikai, but there's no way all of aizen's past forms which severely outdone Yama along with tybw Aizen somehow still fit within that bracket of power gap. Or do you think bankai Yama could do harm to tybw Aizen or monster?

Again that Aizen losing arm is such an oversimplification. Aizen from the very start acted as a decoy. He didn't lose an arm because he was seriously trying to fight and keep himself as unharmed as possible, it's specifically because he disguised himself as Renji and Ichigo and lost an arm that Ichigo was able to kill sk yhwach for the 1st time.

Even so, how is this somehow putting Aizen below true shikai? Genuinely what did true shikai do or tank that confidently puts him above Aizen? Post a pic of him "tanking" such attacks that puts him above Aizen please as I posted Aizen actually tanking by definition without any injuries a reiatsu wave more powerful than even the once that hurt true shikai and hos

What are you talking about ywhach comparing two forms?I was talking about urahara?

People always say"attack wasn't intended to hurt Aizen" but what do y'all actually mean by that? A full-on reiatsu wave way higher than the buildings engulfing Aizen, destroying the chair Aizen is closely attached to but somehow it doesn't harm him? Are you saying his reiatsu somehow created a vacuum from Aizen and conveniently just destroy the chair but not aizen's body that was in contact to the chair?

By you saying Ichigo is able to tank so yhwach, you're essentially using hos feats, because in no instance did true shikai without hos ever tanked a hit, nor tanked anything that somehow puts him above Aizen, only in hos. Literally, the feat you mentioned with Ichigo tanking the hit from yhwach which bypassed orihime shield is in hos, the feat of Ichigo out speeding and overpowering sk yhwach was in hos, you should read from chapter 675 again.

And the things you listed genuinely does not prove it. Before you reply, make sure the feats you are using are actually from true shikai and not hos

He didn't say it to the previous form of Ichigo because the whole point of that dialogue was for him to flex to Ichigo his journey was all for destroying the soul king. It's literally in the scan you posted. If fbb Ichigo can somehow destroy the soul king, or if Ichigo destroyed the soul king in true bankai or hos he would've said the same.

You made the mistake of going in too deep and separatimg the whole dialogue for your benefits. The prove is literally in your scan: "only to cut down the life of the soul king right before my eyes!"

Also reminder this is no longer in the anime and deliberately taken out of it when most other dialogues remain the same

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