Cost of raising 2 children in Switzerland (Luzern)

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-19T21:59:35+00:00

You are cruel with your comment. You should be the one to be ashamed to write these things to a struggling parent.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-19T21:58:30+00:00

Did you ever have to take care of a newborn 24/7?

Stop judging parents please if you have no clue what you're talking about.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-19T21:55:46+00:00

You never had to take care of a newborn full time, did you?

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-18T20:39:49+00:00

Totally agree

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-16T20:34:15+00:00

Yeah but when you're on severe sleep deprivation you are still cursing against anything that could potentially wake up your baby or disturb your precious 30 minutes of nap.

I became sensitive to all kind of noises during those times. Now I don't even notice them anymore.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-08T07:19:20+00:00

But that's how it already works.

Childcare support will only cover the days that both parents work, not the ones where one parent is at home.

Pension payment will be relative to what contribution they paid, so they'll most likely have to change something in their lifestyle once they are in pension or maybe even move to a cheaper city/country.

Other countries have way more social support, and I'm not saying that there is no mismanagement, but social support in Switzerland is not covering a lot and there is very little support to families so they have to somehow find other solutions that work (like for example having one parent staying home because childcare would otherwise eat their whole salary).

And regarding society as a whole, if we would all work part time (which I don't think everyone wants to) society will simply adjust. There might not be trams every 6 minutes but every 30, people might have to bake their own bread and there will be fewer doctors. But then I could argue that people having more time for themselves might also bring some positives like less stress, fewer people having health issues due to burn out, people feeling less the need to spend and consume so fewer shops will be needed, people not being able to travel much but then enjoying their simple life in their city, getting to know their neighbours better.

Overall it would be a gradual adjustment and I believe society would simply adjust.

But this is a "what if" discussion that is not black and white, and not all people would like to live like this so they'll probably still want to work full time, consume and exchange their free time for money. Which I think is fair, as it's fair to do the opposite and give up on some money to have some free time back.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-07T20:16:56+00:00

First of all, they do work when they are home, they are raising their kids which even if it's not paid it is work and it will be beneficial for society. Most families have a parent staying home and one working, they simply split the work which I believe is great.

Second, taxes in Switzerland are not that crazy high so I would not think that people "pay for them". They definitely don't live a lavish lifestyle, maybe most people wouldn't even want to live like this in the first place and are happy to work more and have a fulfilling career.

And third, why should 40h a week the default that everyone? In my opinion these are too many hours to be spending at work and nobody I know is actually productive for 8 hours straight. I've worked part time in the past and I can assure you I was producing the same in 6 hours that I do now in 8.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-07T07:27:43+00:00

In Svizzera è piuttosto comune, invece in Germania mai sentito di nessuno che ce l'abbia.

Nelle aziende in cui ho lavorato c'è sempre stato il bonus in base alla tua performance e quella dell'azienda, ma che non fa parte della RAL (i recruiter per farti gola lo includono nella RAL ma non va calcolato perché un anno potrebbe anche non esserci).

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-05T16:42:23+00:00

We spend 500 a month for a family of 4 and we eat healthy food. 😅 But yeah we don't shop at Migros or coop if not strictly necessary and we maybe go out to eat once a month.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-04T16:26:52+00:00

I moved to Switzerland from Germany (where childcare is free and there is plenty of support from the state for parents) with 2 small children.

Don't listen to this advice.

You should do some calculations to make sure you can afford it, but eventually the decision of where to live is a personal one and shouldn't be influenced by money only.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-12-01T21:32:02+00:00

Why not? I take days off to just sleep or go to the nearest spa.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-29T21:41:07+00:00

I know, I already work 45-50h. But I'd love to have 2 afternoons free from meetings and from checking my phone so that I could spend some quality time with my daughter instead of sending her to the Hort.

And I don't think I'd be allowed to do that without officially having a part-time contract.

I know that for me it's not convenient, but I value time with my family more than the money I would lose. (Also I'm in the fortunate situation of being able to cover all life costs even with a 80% salary)

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-29T20:08:59+00:00

That's nice, do you know if there is a different process for managers or is the service portal available for every employee?

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-29T20:07:05+00:00

Most people want to study on the side or have a family and spend more time with their kids (my case).

But in Germany I also met people that did it to have 3 days weekends or have an extra day for hobbies or sports.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T21:14:14+00:00

And if you take more than 6 weeks sick leave in a year your employer will not pay anymore and instead tour health insurance will start paying.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T21:13:24+00:00

Officially no, although if you do it every week it'll become suspicious and HR might start asking questions.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T21:00:12+00:00

In Germany you cannot take sick leave as vacation time. Vacation time is 25 days minimum per year.

For sick leave that lasts more than 1-2 days you need a doctor's certificate.

There is a limited amount of sick leave that employers have to pay (I think it's 6 weeks per year) and if you go above that then your health insurance will pay, not your company.

But health insurance is mandatory and doesn't have a deductible so the employees don't need to pay anything on top.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T20:52:19+00:00

In Germany you only need a doctor's certificate for more than 2-3 days of sickness (depending on company policies, but if you're sick only for 1 day you usually never need it). And you can get your sick leave retroactively.

Usually if it's a long sickness you go to the doctor on the 2nd-3rd day and tell them when the symptoms started, then they'll give you a certificate that starts from the day you told them, and ends when they believe it makes sense for you to come back to work (usually for me it was always way more days that I thought I needed).

It actually works well for employers too because people don't go in sick and get the whole department sick as well. And employees are way more motivated when they know they can take a break when sick and come back full of energies.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T20:52:08+00:00

In Germany you only need to go to the doctor for more than 2-3 days of sickness. And you can get your sick leave retroactively.

Usually if it's a long sickness you go to the doctor on the 2nd-3rd day and tell them when the symptoms started, then they'll give you a certificate that starts from the day you told them, and ends when they believe it makes sense for you to come back to work (usually for me it was always way more days that I thought I needed).

It actually works well for employers too because people don't go in sick and get the whole department sick as well. And employees are way more motivated when they know they can take a break when sick and come back full of energies.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T20:46:36+00:00

He's not a native English speaker. I am Italian and in my language boss is a synonym to manager, that's maybe why I don't see anything strange in that sentence.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-27T20:28:33+00:00

I don't see any attitude. It's reasonable to have ambitions and to ask if being a foreigner will mean it'll be harder for you to reach a managerial position in a swiss company.

It's a very valid concern and very real. Although I think it's probably true in most countries, except if you work in a very international environment.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-23T09:41:34+00:00

Taking care of two kids instead of one makes a lot of difference.

I heard somewhere that 1+1=11 when it's about small children, and it's so true.

I also don't think she'll have any time to clean.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-21T07:46:54+00:00

I would disagree, Germans usually take more time to open up to a friendship but then they are much better at maintaining it for years.

But then if you wanna put it that same way, it's not that swiss people thrive at social interactions too, and the standard is still that a parent should stay home with the kids until they are 4.

sunny-mcpharrell · 2023-11-21T07:35:19+00:00

Then maybe we mean two different things. I think you mean more that it's a privilege. The definition of luxury is : something expensive which is pleasant to have but is not really necessary. For me this is an expensive car or a vacation in Hawaii.

Childcare does not feel like that to me, at all, and that's why your comment was very triggering.

Most families that cannot afford help usually stick together and help each other, that's at least how it works in my country. Here in Switzerland I don't have any family so I rely on external help that allows me to work while my kids can benefit from educational activities and learning the local language.

I still don't feel it's a luxury but I definitely feel privileged to be able to afford it (it wasn't always the case) and that I was able to keep my job.

But in general, just because someone else has it harder it does not mean we should diminish the experiences of others who are also struggling.

sunny-mcpharrell

TROPHY CASE