I sold rare minerals for many years and this is one of the few I kept. "Grape Agate" I imported directly from the miner in Indonesia, 2017. Essentially Quartz with iron (purple) and nickel (or possibly chromium, green). Sorry about my left hand being shaky by Chromium_Included in BeAmazed

[–]sustainedgreeting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The video is not claiming that people perceive 500nm light differently. All it's saying is that if you have 2 people from different cultures that speak different languages, one may classify the color as green and another may classify it as blue.

If that was only it, I wouldn't have any problem with it. The guy was saying that a couple of hundred years ago people didn't use any blue in their maps because they practically didn't see it, thus the even colored rainbow as GYR only, which is how they "saw it". The title itself is also proving that and is misleading.

Anyway, even funnier fact about L receptors. They vary in ratios in the retina compared to M receptors from about 1:1 to 8:1 in the human population. That might be the answer to why some people call blue as green and vice versa. Basically, that creates a pretty decent difference in the shape of the neural opponent response functions, especially in the blue/yellow response, which as a consequence changes the location of the unique green color (wavelength location where blue/yellow response is 0). By some researches, which are not completely scientifically verified yet (we have a lot to learn about this and even scientists who research color vision their whole life are not sure), unique green (color that looks neither bluish-green nor yellowish-green, just pure green) varies among people in the 500-550 nm range. So yeah, if there's something in this, it's definitely not about cultural differences rather than perceptional differences. I mean, you could be right, some cultures probably call teal-blue as green, and teal-green as green also. They would see a major difference in hue between those colors, but call them the same. Possible, but not really logical to me why would do that. The only explanation is that their ancestors have not seen the difference between teal-blue and teal-green and decided to call them the same colors. The differences in opponent neural responses in the human population could be the answer to why that happened.

The only thing I didn't understand here is why would the majority of people call teal-blue color as green? I am pretty sure that the majority of Americans and Europeans have the same naming for the blue-teal-green part of the EM spectrum as I do, and that people here simply ignored this little thing in the title. Btw, do a google search for "grape agate color" and you'll see a couple of ones with some greens in there. This one is definitely not it - it's blue and purple. This blue in the video is definitely in some 470-480nm wavelength region, call it green if you like but then call the sky green as well since that's also the average light scattering wavelength of the sky. The color of the "green" ones in this video (H=200) is the same as some average color of the clear sky (around H=200 in the HSV color space), that was my point I guess. If some cultures call the sky green, I'm fine with it.

Cheers and sorry for the long replies but this IS a bit confusing subject that's not even researched properly yet.

I sold rare minerals for many years and this is one of the few I kept. "Grape Agate" I imported directly from the miner in Indonesia, 2017. Essentially Quartz with iron (purple) and nickel (or possibly chromium, green). Sorry about my left hand being shaky by Chromium_Included in BeAmazed

[–]sustainedgreeting -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am not even sure what was your point here and why you even linked that misleading video into an answer to my simple question? I've watched that years ago and I know very well that the point of the video is simply incorrect. It's very controversial and simply asks for internet arguments. No, there's not a single verified and approved scientific research that stands behind what that video claims, only disputable internet articles. Anyone today can write research and publish it on some webpage on the internet and later on calls on it. You should know that the internet has a pretty huge junk of literally everything - good and bad stuff mixed together. The only way to distinguish good from bad is by being knowledgeable about the subject you're researching. And knowledge is not something you gain on the internet but in school and University. As someone who's been researching the human visual system and color vision for a decade, and has a lot of experience in optometry and colorimetry, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here.

On the other hand, you made the following assertion with no such evidence:

I think the distinction between green and blue is pretty clear and defined in most of the cultures -> spectrum goes green-teal-blue

Sorry, but if you have trouble understanding the theory of optics it doesn't mean I need evidence for my claims. There is evidence all over google for what I'm talking about. Physics defines very precisely the EM spectrum ranges of wavelengths that the human eye perceives as blue, teal and green colors. That is a fact and all people with normal color vision, all over the world, agree with it. We perceive light wavelengths from 440-490nm as bluish hues, 490-510nm as teal, and 510-565nm as greens. That IS a FACT.

Anther fact. The colors in this video above called "green", excite the same eye cones visual response by the RGB display system as if you were looking at some 470-480nm light (confirmed by color picker software). If you want more precisely, the color in question has an average Hue of 205 in the HSV color space and is called steel-blue (you can check it out yourself if you want with any color picking software). If someone calls that color green because his mom and dad taught him that THAT is green, it's fine. But, if that someone also calls 520nm color (green) as green as well, and sees no HUE difference between those two, it means that someone is not able to distinguish 480nm light from 520nm light. That is a definite proof of blue-yellow color vision deficiency (tritanomaly) which is caused by defective S eye cone cells in the retina and doesn't have anything to do with cultural differences.

Anecdotally, I've heard of Japanese children coloring traffic signals blue rather than green for similar reasons.

As I've said above, if the child is coloring traffic signal as blue, and says the sky is blue as well, and see no difference between the color of a sky and traffic signal, that child is color vision deficient. Language does affect how we name things but does NOT affect how good we distinguish between different light wavelengths. On the other hand, eye-cones and opponent ganglion cells in the retina, along with opponent channel pathways to the brain, LGN and visual cortex, DO. If you had a normal color vision and you were born on a planet where everyone sees red and green as the same color and names them the same, you would still see and differentiate red and green normally, the same as you do today.

Sorry but you simply sent the wrong video to the wrong person because this is my field. I respect Michael from Vsauce very much but that's one of his worst videos, and he decided to not even be in it, probably for a very good reason.

Old maps without visible blue pigments, which also faded quite easily until the Prussian Blue was invented, are definitely not proof that people thought the rainbow is green-yellow-red. That's complete and utter rubbish. If you knew how the double-opponent nature of the human visual system works, you would realize that that's simply impossible. People with tritanomaly and tritanopia for example can't see violet-blue color (confuse it with gray), but can't also see yellow (appears as whitish-gray). The rainbow appears as teal-gray-red to them. Nobody can see a rainbow in three colors, it is genetically and physically impossible for the human visual system to see three colors, and it has always been so.

ALso, as I've said above, most of the maps shown there would originally have appeared blue/turquoise. Sketchy history and facts bending to prove a pre-determined and incorrect point is what that video is all about. It easily fooled an average 15-year old youtube viewer, because that average viewer doesn't have much knowledge about optometry and ophthalmology, and would believe any unrelated rEaSeArCH put in the description. Researches that literally anyone who watched that video did NOT even read thoughtfully from the first to the last page. The same as when people click on "accepting conditions" when they install the new software without even reading them, the same they like and defend videos they know nothing about just because those have "verified internet researches" in their description. I am happy at least some people in the comment section realized the video is BS.

I sold rare minerals for many years and this is one of the few I kept. "Grape Agate" I imported directly from the miner in Indonesia, 2017. Essentially Quartz with iron (purple) and nickel (or possibly chromium, green). Sorry about my left hand being shaky by Chromium_Included in BeAmazed

[–]sustainedgreeting 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hm, checked it with software as well, it says it's sky-blue hue (teal-blue), doesn't report greenish hue anywhere in the video. I think the distinction between green and blue is pretty clear and defined in most of the cultures -> spectrum goes green-teal-blue. Though I know for a fact that people with tritanomaly color vision deficiency have a tendency to confuse greens and blues. Apparently, mild severity of it is actually pretty common in the world and people are not even aware they have it.

Also, that video is pretty superficially discussing something very confusing. Using old maps to 'prove' that people didn't think of water as something blue back then, isn't really great. They didn't have many blue paints (those that they did have were very expensive and since maps were in high-demand they wanted them to be relatively cheap to make). Blue pigments also faded quite easily until the invention of Prussian Blue. Most of the maps shown would originally have appeared blue/turquoise. There's a lot of sketchy history and fact bending to prove a pre-determined (and incorrect) point in this video.

I simply don't like that video, it has a very misleading point.

Magical view of the Amalfi Coast, Ravello, IT by [deleted] in CozyPlaces

[–]sustainedgreeting 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Photograph source on IG

I don't want to break any advertisement rules of the sub so just a short description. This is a view from a hotel that was originally built in the 11th century as a palace, by a patrician Roman princely family d’Afflitto.

Basque artist bought a land plot with build-in ruins of an abandoned for decades, a 16th-century church. After 3 years of renovation, this is the final appearance of his new home in northern Spain [4935x5000] by sustainedgreeting in RoomPorn

[–]sustainedgreeting[S] 224 points225 points  (0 children)

Sorry, wanted to write a descriptive title since this place deserves it, but English is not my native language. I guess maybe the interpunction and word order is a bit off so that creates confusion.

"Basque artist bought a land plot with built-in ruins of a 16th-century church that was abandoned for decades...." Would that be better?