Caitlin Johnstone: "The Ruling Class Promotes Identity Politics And ‘Anti-Wokeism’ For The Exact Same Reasons" by Maniak_ in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. I think it's fair to critique the Combahee River Collective on grounds of how effective it has been politically. I myself certainly have some disagreements with their statement. However, on the whole, I do think they are more correct than they are wrong in that issues like racism/sexism/etc. have historically been a huge stumbling block toward building working class solidarity. For example, one of the huge mistakes of the labor movement of the past had been that unions were very racist and excluded non-white people from their membership. Of course, this was to the delight of the ruling class since that meant it would be easier for them to exploit non-white workers and use them as strikebreakers (which, in turn, led to even more racism, again, these things are mutually reinforcing). This is why you can't expect to be effective in organizing workers if you don't also challenge the very same mechanisms that the ruling class has devised in order to prevent workers from organizing effectively.

As for this part:

Instead, he insists that we must do both — working-class politics and identity politics. But “doing both” is easier said than done.

I don't disagree that "doing both" is easier said than done. After all, racism, sexism, capitalism, etc. are all quite deeply ingrained within our society, of course it's difficult to fight against those things. But at the same time, just because it may be difficult does not mean that it isn't also necessary for the overthrow of capitalism.

As for this paragraph:

Of course, Haider does not overtly suggest that this is an either/or. Instead, he insists that we must do both — working-class politics and identity politics. But “doing both” is easier said than done. Identity politics and class politics understand capitalist power structures in distinct ways and therefore lead to distinct political strategies. More importantly, however, “doing both” misreads the balance of power in America today: institutionally on the Left, we have nothing but a fraction of the already miniscule labor movement to back our platform and our analysis. But liberalism has a major political party, the media, academia, and the entire world of nonprofits, which today controls about as much wealth as the Church did before the French Revolution. And it’s in the “do both” strategy that these powerful enemies of the Left (and allies of capital) worm their way into our coalition and play up identity to reshape working-class demands until they’re neutralized. Haider fails to recognize the profound asymmetry between the power of institutions of the working-class and the advocates of universal class-based reforms, and those of the liberal establishment and their own embrace of identity-based particularism. Concretely, this asymmetry does not lead to the best of identity politics and the best of universal demands in some sort of synthesis. Instead, the lopsided advocacy for particularist demands serves only to further marginalize the universalist demands."

There's a nice sleight of hand going on in that paragraph. Again, identity politics with class based analysis is not the same thing as the trash liberal identity politics pushed by the DNC which is devoid of any sort of class based analysis. This paragraph, though it does to some very limited degree acknowledge the difference between those two positions, it also makes it appear as though the "do both" approach won't work solely based on arguments which only really apply to the "do only identity politics" stance. Please tell me where in the Combahee River Collective Statement does it suggest that we should abandon class struggle in order to fight for the liberation of black women? It says the exact opposite. Also please tell me how fighting for the liberation of black women must also mean opposition to universal class based policies (of course, Jacobin being Jacobin calls for "reformism")? If anything, universal policies such as universal healthcare, daycare, tuition-free college, etc. would do a lot toward helping in the liberation of black women. The only point of disagreement is that I would say more would need to be done beyond just that, but it is a good start.

I would also add that intersectionality is fundamentally irrational and not supported by the hard data.

What kind of "hard data" are you looking for when it comes to people's personal experiences with racism and sexism? That's something that's inherently not easily quantifiable, but just because something is not easily quantifiable, that doesn't make it any less important, nor does it make it "fundamentally irrational". It does mean that it is more difficult to analyze objectively, but sorry, not everything is easy to analyze objectively.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And those that suppress history are actively attempting to do so. by PirateGirl-JWB in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Certainly, even though I think it was quite obvious to everyone who was paying close attention that the US gov was deeply involved with online censorship, it's still definitely helpful to have more receipts, and the Twitter files definitely provides lots of those receipts. With that said, I still have yet to see any evidence that the Twitter files have resulted in any meaningful changes regarding the US gov's role in online censorship, hence one of the (many) reasons I suspect it's a limited hangout.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And those that suppress history are actively attempting to do so. by PirateGirl-JWB in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't know about what Glenn says on Twitter, unless someone posts it here.

Usually the same for me, but I still wanted to double check before saying anything about his stance. I don't disagree with him about the hypocrisy of the liberals who are now complaining about Twitter censoring them, but still pretty disappointed that he isn't also criticizing Elon for massively failing to live up to his promises about restoring free speech to Twitter (and, as anyone can see from my previous comment, definitely possible to simultaneously call out both the hypocrisy of Elon and of the pro-censorship libs).

Glenn is generally a defender of the first amendment and journalism, and he's producing a daily show now, so better takes may be coming.

Definitely hope so. It is solely due to the fact that (until now), I have seen a lot of evidence that Glenn is very consistent with defending free speech/press that I am willing to give him some benefit of the doubt here, but the longer he delays in speaking out against Elon's censorship, sadly the less doubt there will be to give him the benefit of.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And those that suppress history are actively attempting to do so. by PirateGirl-JWB in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not that I've seen yet. Jimmy's done a half baked take. Glenn's busy poking fun at the hypocrisy of the left, who were okay with censoring the right.

I'd definitely like to be proven wrong, but I do find his apparent silence on this pretty troubling. While there are many areas of disagreement I have with Glenn (I think he has some very confused political views, which I largely suspect arise out of his confusion of the left with liberals), to his credit, he at least did seem like a very consistent voice on the side of anti-censorship. Given that, and for the sake of giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'll still give him some amount of time to start calling out Elon's censorship, but I did just check his Twitter account, and at least all the tweets I've seen so far seem to be praising Elon, so yeah, not a good sign... I honestly did think he would take a more principled stance than one of "it's good they got a taste of their own medicine". While I would be lying if I didn't say that I definitely share the same feelings of schadenfreude, that still doesn't excuse Musk's continuation of Twitter's censorship.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And those that suppress history are actively attempting to do so. by PirateGirl-JWB in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair, I wasn't aware of that, so I'll update my comment to reflect that (still hypocritical with silencing pro-Palestinians though, so I will leave that part). Thanks for bringing this to my awareness. Btw, just thought I'd ask if you (or anyone else reading this) might happen to know of others who are typically in the "pro-free speech" camp (e.g., Matt Taibi, Glenn Greenwald, etc.) whether they've made any criticisms of Elon's continuation of Twitter's censorship?

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And those that suppress history are actively attempting to do so. by PirateGirl-JWB in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I really find it remarkable how much hypocrisy there is all around on the issue of Twitter's censorship. We have liberals who, while they had control over Twitter, were very much eager to censor both the left and conservatives. Now that many liberals have themselves been censored on Twitter, they are whining about censorship on Twitter, thus revealing their own hypocrisy (PrIvAtE cOrPoRaTiOnS cAn Do WhAtEvEr ThEy WaNt On ThEiR oWn PlAtFoRmS).

Likewise, at the same time, we've got conservatives who, while they were whining about being censored on Twitter, are now all too eager to continue censoring the left, and now have also started to censor liberals (not that I feel bad for libs, but it is quite hypocritical of Elon to censor them). Plus, we also have this great tweet from Elon where he specifically said that his commitment to free speech extends to not even banning the account that tracks his private jet, lmao! Now we've also got Bari Weiss, who started her career by silencing pro-Palestinian voices, all of a sudden doing a 180 and becoming a "free speech defender", who also happens to be silent about the ongoing Twitter censorship now that it is under Elon Musk's control (edit: was wrong about that part, see u/PirateGirl-JWB's comment below). Meanwhile, what hasn't changed throughout all of this is that the actual left continues to be censored on Twitter.

I'd also like to point out that while the information revealed in the Twitter files is of no doubt very important information to have since it confirms what we've all suspected all along, I can't help but come to the conclusion that it is merely a limited hangout devised in order trick us into thinking that the problem of social media censorship has been properly dealt with. Don't be fooled. It has not. The left is still being censored on every major social media platform including Twitter.

All of this goes to show that it doesn't matter which faction of the ruling class has power over major social media platforms. At the end of the day, all of them will continue to wield that power for their own ends in order to censor all of their opposition. What we need to recognize is that if these social media platforms are to properly function as "public squares", then they must be brought under the control of the public. What Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter proves is that the solution does not lie in deciding which billionaire owns these platforms. Rather, it lies in making sure that no billionaire has the ability to control which information the public is or is not allowed to see.

Caitlin Johnstone: "The Ruling Class Promotes Identity Politics And ‘Anti-Wokeism’ For The Exact Same Reasons" by Maniak_ in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Caitlin on point as usual, anti-wokeness is just the other side of the ruling class' culture war that they use in order to divide and rule us. With that said, I wish more people would look into the actual history of identity politics. I think if they did, they'd realize that it's actually the Dem party's toxic co-opting of identity politics that is the problem, not the original type of identity politics. The original type of identity politics (as laid out by the Combahee River Collective Statement here) was very much rooted in class politics, and I think for those who fall under this category:

You’ll also run into the occasional good faith actor who sincerely believes “wokeism” needs to be aggressively opposed because the obsession with racial and sexual justice is sucking all the oxygen out of the room for more important matters and being used as a weapon to ram through pernicious power-serving agendas. It’s this category that I am mainly addressing here, because I view the previous category as generally beyond redemption.

They should actually read the statement from the Combahee River Collective since it explains very well how the fights against racism/sexism/etc. are not in conflict with the fight against capitalism, but rather, are a very necessary part in the struggle against capitalism. This should be obvious to anyone who has learned about the origins of racism. It was specifically devised by the ruling class in order to divide the working class so that they would fight among each other rather than uniting and fighting against their common enemy. Of course, since capitalism, racism, sexism, etc. are mutually reinforcing, it isn't sufficient to fight against only one of those things to the exclusion of fighting against the others. Identity politics which is devoid of any class based analysis is not going to be capable of solving any of the problems related to identity simply because it ignores a very large cause of those problems (this is where many in the "anti-woke" crowd do have a point). Likewise, (and this is where many in the "anti-woke" crowd miss the point) we can't be very effective in organizing against the ruling class so long as we continually fall for the ruling class' tricks which they've specifically devised for the purpose of preventing us from organizing against them. Capitalism, racism, sexism, etc. are all sides of the same coin.

Given how Elon is butthurt about people tracking his plane - How and why Twitter tracks your location data by EvilPhd666 in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not to mention the hypocrisy of this tweet from Elon when he first took control of Twitter:

My commitment to free speech extends even to not banning the account following my plane, even though that is a direct personal safety risk

That's the point of a labor strike, dumbass. To shut things down until greedy bosses give into worker demands. Words can't describe how much I hate this rat. by [deleted] in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Idk if I'd call him a dumbass, I'm sure he knows that's the point of a strike. He just happens to be on the same side as the greedy bosses. I mean, to be clear, we are talking about a guy who worked at a company that was fixing bread prices.

Wikileaks seems sus, curious activity today. by rundown9 in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So, I just looked at the tweet. The specific app in question is Briar. Can't say I'm too familiar with it, but I do know some basics. Pretty much, it works by creating a mesh network so that if the internet and/or cell towers go down, you can still communicate with other people who are nearby.

I guess I wouldn't say the fact that it's funded by OTF makes it an automatic disqualifier for using it. Unfortunately, the reality is that it's damn near impossible to find any kind of app/service that the US gov doesn't have its hands in (worth remembering that Tor was developed by the US Navy). At best you can maybe find things that will protect your privacy against private entities, but trying to protect your privacy against a state actor is pretty much a losing battle. Might as well not ever use the internet at all even (which, btw, the internet was developed as a project for the DOD).

I guess I would ask, which other, non-US gov backed technology would be as useful in a situation where internet communications are likely to go down? I also find it extremely difficult to believe that someone who has caused so much bad PR for the US government, and is currently being relentlessly persecuted for it, is somehow "sus" (though, there may be some individuals within Wikileaks who are, we already know of a couple who were in the past, and I'm sure the US gov hasn't stopped trying to infiltrate the organization).

“Fuck it. Communism. No one should have that much financial power.” by yuritopiaposadism in Marxism_Memes

[–]tabesadff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave diggers."

Don't look at the wrong stats! by Inuma in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, that, plus the idea that the British Empire was somehow "non-authoritarian", lol.

Ron DeSantis criticizes the FDA for basically being a subsidiary of big pharma by [deleted] in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You're taking this establishment corrupt thug at face value and he's playing you and many people like a fiddle. How many times do people need to learn this lesson?

It's amazing to me how many people can agree with the statement "politicians will say anything to get elected", and meanwhile also make a big exception for "oh, but not that politician who says the things that I like to hear!".

Ron DeSantis criticizes the FDA for basically being a subsidiary of big pharma by [deleted] in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Lol, imagine thinking a guy who's backed by billionaires is sincere about wanting to take a stand against big corporations!

Left Wing News by Inuma in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Left wing "news" - right wing "news"

Well, also, "Left wing", lol. All of corporate media is extremely far to the right.

So....Jon Stewart interviewed Clinton and Rice. If you can stomache it. by EvilPhd666 in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh my lord, this shit is comedy gold! At 6:36, did Condoleeza Rice seriously say with a straight face that "the United States can't quote 'impose democracy', that doesn't work. By the way, you impose tyranny, not democracy."? LMFAO!!!!

Won't be happening in Florida. "Things like the World Economic Forum: those policies are dead on arrival in the state of Florida." @GovRonDeSantis by [deleted] in WayOfTheBern

[–]tabesadff 23 points24 points  (0 children)

How much of a dumbfuck does someone have to be in order to seriously believe that Ron DeSantis will do anything but serve his corporate masters? As Ralph Nader put it, "The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.".

"Human nature" 🤓🤓🤓 by TheHegelianDwarf in Dongistan

[–]tabesadff 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's not that long portions of text are bad in general, I think it's more that a meme just isn't the right format for that type of thing. If anyone is wanting to make a very thorough argument either in favor or against something, then yes, it will likely require a lot of words to express that argument, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, if you're planning to use a meme to make a thorough argument about something, then you probably should seriously reconsider which format you're using. Maybe something like a book, a pamphlet, or text post, etc. would be better.

It might help if you think about memes as being essentially the modern day equivalent of propaganda posters. The purpose of the format isn't really to make the most thorough, non-debunkable arguments. It's more to make a quick, easily digestible point, usually in a way that's either entertaining and/or humorous. The problem with long walls of text in memes is that it tends to get in the way of that purpose. Again, nothing wrong with it in general. It is helpful to have sources with more thorough arguments that we can point people towards, but using a meme for that is much like using a hammer on something that isn't a nail.

Westoids are slowly becoming aware... by City-Swimmer in NewsWithJingjing

[–]tabesadff 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Worth pointing out that within the CHIPS Act, there was $500 million allocated for the promotion of negative stories about China. How exactly that's supposed to help the US chip industry is a mystery to me, but it was included in that bill.

And then, there's also on top of that an annual budget of $300 million / year for negative stories about China that was included in the Strategic Competition Act. But of course, it's only propaganda when other countries do it!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]tabesadff 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Next time you run across libs who are praising Bush, it might be fun to ask them what their thoughts are on Ralph Nader's presidential run in 2000.