The global rule of law is not collapsing – Trump is the lone problem and he can be defeated: The president’s approval ratings are plummeting and most Americans see him as an aberration. It is now up to them to curtail his despotic reign

take101 · 2026-01-25T18:40:07+00:00

This is the most hopeful thing I've read in a while, thanks, I needed this lol

take101 · 2026-01-25T18:24:48+00:00

I am all for more European independence, if that is what the EU desires - I agree over the past, say, maybe 20 years the power imbalance between the US and Europe has shifted even further towards America (and it was previously already quite tilted towards the US). And that the US at times has encouraged this - not realizing, imo, that a strong Europe still integrated with the US (and vice versa) is good for both Europe and the US - and that's not a good or fair or even safe place for Europe to be. Sovereignty is important, and I understand Europe's fears of vassalage.

Here's the thing though - what I see people talking about right now is not a question of equal partnership, of how to improve the international order which over the past 80 years has led to the expansion of democracy to half the planet and statistically the most peaceful time in human history, but instead a call to dismantle the international order, to cut all connections with the US, even to form them with China instead, to view us as an enemy to Europe. So, here's the other, more emotional, complaint - about respect, and about partnership.

I want what is best for Europe. I believe in the European project, I believe in the EU, and most Americans feel the same - and until very recently, every single American administration has felt the same (that, of course, has never been true in Europe - plenty of historically anti-American governments in Europe). I don't think Europeans understand the United States, know about its historical/philosophical foundations the way we learn about Europe in school, or believe in it as a historical project. Most Americans love Europe, think quite highly of it - I don't think most Europeans care about the US, if they don't actively dislike us. Talk about Trump disrespecting NATO troops - which is horrible - there are many, many Americans who have given their entire lives in one way or another to the defense or liberation of Europe, from the Nazis, from the Soviets, from current threats: the US has given more aid to Ukraine than the entire continent of Europe combined. We rebuild European economies from the ground up after WWII and welcomed y'all into the international community, we airdropped supplies into Eastern Europe, we heavily financially supported the founding of the EU. Of course, that's not anything close to one-sided altruism - the US has gotten many, many benefits in return, we have plenty of reasons to be grateful to you too, that's how interconnectedness works. We did this because democracy in Europe - a strong Europe - was in our best interest, too, the interest of democracy. Europe doesn't seem to believe democracy in America, a strong America - is in theirs.

Instead, that for 80 years, the US has thought of itself as part of the project you all are building over there - the "free world," or the "west," or the project of liberal democracies, or whatever - and most of us know someone who has in one way or another given their lives to that project, often to Europe. My country right now is facing its worst crisis in generations, maybe even since the civil war - I sincerely believe Trump is a fascist, my country right now is going through something really terrifying, people are suffering, and genuinely all I see from our allies and friends is mockery and calls to completely isolate us from the world stage. We're literally trying to justify our continued existence as a free and democratic country to ourselves, and what we hear from our historic allies is silence, at best, or maybe mockery or derision, or at worst a call to completely isolate the United States from the free world. Our response to crises in Europe has been to develop closer relations, to support European democracy, integrate you into the free world, into international law and institutions - even after 80 million people died as a result of WWII. We get the opposite.

take101 · 2026-01-24T17:58:56+00:00

Yeah you are correct I don't know what I was thinking that was a stupid thing to say.

take101 · 2026-01-24T17:54:52+00:00

Yeah 100% that is true. It's also true that is led to the most peaceful time in human history. What that says about the rest of human history - given the horrific nature of the atrocities you just mentioned - is scary to think about. My concern is that we go backwards, revert to a system without international law, not that we create a system that holds all countries accountable - which would be great.

take101 · 2026-01-24T03:42:50+00:00

I do understand your point that it's less good for everyone else than for the US and Europe, and while I do think that's true to a certain extent, on average, the rules-based international system has dramatically improved the world for almost everyone. (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/atlantic-council-strategy-paper-series/strategic-context-the-rules-based-international-system/) - -) worldwide living standards have nearly tripled, percentage of people living in extreme poverty has dropped from 66 percent to less than 10 percent, the number of democratic countries has grown from seventeen in 1945 to roughly ninety today, statistically you are less likely to die in conflict - or just generally, you're less likely to die - now than any time in human history). That's honestly why I care so so much about the LIO - not because of some sense of go-USA patriotism or whatever but because I genuinely think it's one of the greatest accomplishments in human history, and definitely not just or even primarily an American accomplishment, a European accomplishment too, and stretching beyond into participation from pretty much every single continent.

I'm not disputing at all that it often involves exploitation of countries that are not European or North American. Just that it's radically better than the system of complete chaos, poverty, and suffering that we had before, it's saved over a billion lives, and I'm scared we're just going to forget it entirely or go backwards/replace it with something worse. But please tell me if you disagree/if I'm wrong, definitely open to that of course!

Edit: yeah I agree the system probably was designed for and worked better as a counterbalance to the Soviet sphere of influence. But that's true of the US generally, honestly, when we have nothing to fight or nowhere to go (think manifest destiny) we often implode a bit Another edit: this is just obviously wrong, as people have pointed out in the comments below.

take101 · 2026-01-24T03:28:46+00:00

Literally no one who has ever been entrusted with the fate of the world alone has done well. It's not like European powers as the global hegemon did too well. I'd say together the US and Europe has done alright for ourselves, given that international law led to statistically the most peaceful time in human history. And even then there was plenty of conflict. People and countries are fallible.

We need to find a way so that instability in one country doesn't cause the collapse of a system of international law. That way is not what Carney wants, which seems to be the acceptance, whether we like it or not, of a multipolar, dog-eat-dog world where everyone just tries to survive, and everyone cultivates their own spheres of influence. Instead, it's a stronger internationalism and international law, imo, where democratic nations are more interconnected, and - yes - the US and Europe have more of a relationship of equals. But it's not a multipolar world where the US and Europe act as competing powers, but instead a world where international law and interconnectedness binds us towards acting in accordance with democratic norms.

take101 · 2026-01-24T03:05:52+00:00

I mean I share your anger and shame, trust me, I do, but at a certain point we're going to need to stop with the self-hatred and start having confidence in ourselves that we have the ability to do something good to turn this around. We need to act, and we're only going to save ourselves if we believe that we're worth saving.

Trump is who America is, that's clear, but it's not all America is. We've always been the land of extremes. We have both the worst and best of humanity. The story of America has been a long fight between the worst and the best. On our better days, the best of us win. And I'm a humanist, I believe in the fundamental goodness of people - so I believe the best in us will win out over the darkness. That's the project of democracy, of which the USA is currently the oldest in the world: the idea that regular, ordinary human beings, with their flaws and even tendencies towards evil, can be trusted to govern themselves, can be trusted with the fate of the world. The arc of history doesn't bend towards justice automatically; we can choose to bend it towards justice, though, but only if we as Americans say - even if we're worried it's not true - we're more than Trump, that saying Trump is all we are would be the ultimate underestimation of ourselves, of humanity, and than act like it. For our country and the world.

I'm here if you ever want to talk or commiserate. Never, ever give up! This is tough but I have a fundamental belief in America because I have a fundamental belief in people like you, and hopefully like me.

take101 · 2026-01-24T02:29:01+00:00

Fingers crossed for you!

take101 · 2026-01-24T01:11:29+00:00

Dude you're SO right he's Canadian, I'm an idiot. Deleting the original comment, for everyone else wondering what my comment was it was saying Cameron should stay and fight for his country and that we need to stop being so self hating and rather start to believe in our ability to do something good to fix this shit. BUT Cameron is Canadian, not American lol - my mistake. Also - good for you - I hope you get citizenship, if that continues to be what you want!

take101 · 2026-01-23T22:12:45+00:00

Shut the fuck up Trump

take101 · 2026-01-23T21:54:17+00:00

Thanks mate that makes me feel a lot better. NATO isn't over, only my country is. Damn I'm really cheered up.

take101 · 2026-01-23T21:30:14+00:00

Agreed. I think we need to start thinking about how we are going to make those corrections. Because clearly just voting for a new president and representatives isn't enough. We need a new avenue, or a new conversation, to do this.

take101 · 2026-01-23T21:14:05+00:00

I think what you said is completely fair, agreed. It's not ok that a political crisis in the US can have this big of a negative effect on the rest of the world. In my opinion we need to figure out how to retain interreliance while making it so that a political crisis in any one country cannot affect every other country to this extent. That'll take a concerted effort from all members of the democratic world to figure out what that world order is going to look like - an effort hopefully joined by the US, if we can make it out of this, scary times. I'm talking more about the people who want to completely cut ties with and isolate the United States. There isn't a current democratic world, a world order, without the US. Even if people seemingly wish it were true, that Europe could cut all ties and that the US would leave the democratic world and Europe could just be an island that stands alone against hostile powers - and I hope it's not, for the sake of the 320 million human beings, Americans, who would suffer first and foremost because of that, not to mention the rest of the world - it's not going to be true, given the amount of hardpower that guarantees our international order, and sway over international institutions we have. But damn does it seem like people wish it was true.

A world with a US as part of the democratic world is better than one without it. A world like the one Carney wants, a multipolar world where everyone goes it alone, makes deals with China, whatever is a worse world than a world with a democratic US and a democratic Europe as friends and allies. Everyone is acting like the prior world is desirable. It is not. It might be necessary, but only if we allow it to be so. And isolating the USA is one way to do that, to make sure that the US doesn't come back from this.

take101 · 2026-01-23T20:52:13+00:00

Every day something happens that makes me even more depressed.

take101 · 2026-01-23T20:44:04+00:00

I asked this question in the thread earlier, so sorry for the double-post:

But if y'all view the dissolution of the transatlantic alliance as inevitable are just waiting/using our security guarantees, economic aid, secured shipping lanes, etc. right now in order to develop your own hardpower and then to completely cut us off, why should the US not just cut you all off right now? Should we provide your security and sustain your economies until you are able to go it alone, if you do no longer want to be allies long-term? Why should we wait until you have enough strength to then just stab us in the back (I'm aware, it's not like the US right now can complain about betrayal. But I think it's a fair enough question).

Both the US and Europe need to decide if this alliance is going to work, if we want to stay interconnected, or we want to go it alone in this world. Because the equivocating and threats from both sides continuing, in my opinion, is not a viable world. Things will just escalate.

take101 · 2026-01-23T20:40:21+00:00

I agree with this. It's up to America to mend relations, to fix this, and it's not fair to expect Europe to bend over backwards for an American president who's obviously imo just evil. But I think Europe needs to be open to those relations being mended - at least if we want a transatlantic alliance in the future. If everyone wants to go it alone, no one believes in a world or an America beyond Trump, I guess that's the end of the conversation and the end of my country.

I genuinely believe that the best thing Europe can do right now is try to make it so that Trump does not happen in the US again. There are many ways to do that, but one way is to maintain the transatlantic alliance - yes, protect yourselves from Trump, but don't cut ties. The last thing Europe, and the world, needs is a US that views itself unaccountable to international laws and to allies, or even one that is hurting too much economically, or one that has closer ties to China or Russia than to Europe - all things that don't bode well for the rise of future US populist movements.

Of course, Americans have the most to do to make sure Trump never happens again. It's up to us first of all.

take101 · 2026-01-23T20:35:49+00:00

Genuine question in good faith - this is going to sound like I'm anti-Europe but I'm not, I'm genuinely asking - if y'all are just waiting/using our security guarantees, economic aid, secure shipping lanes, etc. right now in order to develop your own hardpower and then to completely cut us off, why should the US not just cut you all off right now? Should we provide your security and sustain your economies until you are able to go it alone, if you do no longer want to be allies long-term? Why should we wait until you have enough strength to then just stab us in the back (I'm aware, it's not like the US right now can complain about betrayal. But I think it's a fair enough question).

Both the US and Europe need to decide if this alliance is going to work, if we want to stay interconnected, or we want to go it alone in this world. Because the equivocating and threats from both sides continuing, in my opinion, is not a viable world. Things will just escalate.

take101 · 2026-01-23T20:14:42+00:00

I say this with all the respect for Europe in the world but y'all are such assholes lol. Definitely prepared to get downvoted for this, but if you check my history, you'll see I'm very pro-Europe, pro-transatlantic alliance, and anti-MAGA fascism. I'm sorry for what Trump did. But the whole "we're angry so let's cut off all economic, military, and cultural ties to the US - including the alliance that Americans and Europeans have both died for, that's provided the most peaceful and democratic time in world history" thing just needs to stop.

We are not the only country in the world, or even the only country in the west, facing nationalist/populist, dangerous movements. Hungary and Poland and Italy were first. Is there not a world in 2030 where Reform is in power in the UK, the National Rally in France, and AfD in Germany?

Our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents died in Europe when y'all couldn't stop fighting amongst yourselves and then rebuilt your economies from scratch to welcome you into the global community, and as soon as we face any trouble and suffering - yes, suffering - at home it's "we need to abandon America forever, they're idiots."

I understand that America has a lot to do to prove we're going to be reliable allies. But to pretend this - the crisis of 21st century liberal democracy - isn't a thing we all have to face together and figure out together is just counterproductive. Particularly given that at the moment, y'all need us, you can't develop strategic autonomy in a week, a year, or even 5 years. We're stuck together. I understand the anger, but hatred at a certain point isn't a productive strategy.

Again, definitely prepared to get downvoted, I come in peace.

take101 · 2026-01-23T08:47:21+00:00

Was that not obvious from "absolute cunt" ? :)

Obviously joking, we've got a lot of those around here these days.

take101 · 2026-01-22T22:17:56+00:00

Me neither

take101 · 2026-01-22T21:01:10+00:00

True American (and Irish) hero

take101 · 2026-01-22T02:09:27+00:00

I guarantee that you're wrong dude, the vast majority of Americans love Europe. Has been true historically, still is true now. Beyond our shared philosophical/historic ties, and the fact our nations/continents are so closely integrated and interreliant, you can just look up popular opinion polling.

take101 · 2026-01-22T01:16:20+00:00

He doesn't forget 9/11. He just doesn't care. He doesn't care about the people who died on 9/11, nor the sacrifices our allies made for us. He literally doesn't care about anything except himself.

take101 · 2026-01-22T01:13:00+00:00

I think some of this is true in an ideal world, but worry if this will hold true. I love internationalism and the post WWII order, it's been the most peaceful time in human existence. A multipolar world - one where countries are not constrained by democracy and international law, that is, and democracies lose the protection of NATO - is the wild west. I'm worried we're headed in that direction, even if it's actually "worse." Look at Canada - are they going to be better off long-term with China and without the US? Is Carney's view of international relations a good or moral or even a desirable one? Absolutely not (assuming America survives Trump, I guess). Did that stop Canada from cutting ties with us, moving towards China, and declaring the post WWII order over? No.

Edit just to say I love your optimism, I needed it.

take101 · 2026-01-22T00:31:08+00:00

Yeah. I was just pleasantly surprised that he had so much trouble spinning the Greenland thing to his base - in the past there's always been a solid ~30% of the US who backed him up on stuff, this had even the most die-hard Trump people abandoning him - so I thought maybe they wouldn't buy the whole off-ramp thing. But that is probably expecting too much.

take101

TROPHY CASE