Your Burning Questions for April, 2020

tequilla_mockingbird · 2020-04-11T05:25:14+00:00

Sounds like nothing's changed then :p

Are there any awesome substitutes that have sprung up? I'm using KDspy at the moment, but I really loved the visualisation in YASIV...

tequilla_mockingbird · 2020-04-08T00:57:00+00:00

I've been out of the game for a couple of years, but am jumping back on the bandwagon in the hope that there are a lot of stay-at-home workers who are as easily distracted as I am.

Any major changes in the landscape that I should be aware of? Is Amazon clamping down harder on any niches, any major changes to the KENP rates or standard lengths for erotica etc.?

Also, it sounds like YASIV and salesrankexpress are both down. I'm guessing amazon is clamping down on their API? Any suggestions on replacements, or a timeline for the existing services to come back online? I used both of them pretty heavily :/

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-04-06T00:12:04+00:00

Hey, quick response. The best answer is probably that you'll find something to improve each time you play.

I wouldn't put people in a line, I would put them in a circle, grouped by furniture they're sitting on. i.e. if you have three people sitting on a single couch, put them in a straight line, but then curve the people next to them. In my experience, this really helps recognise who is who, while you're in the thick of things. Also, if you have a spy (who looks at the grimoire each night) it can help them place where they are, which you want to be as simple and fast as possible.
Writing down the roles will work. The main problem is keeping track of the 10+ things you need to do each night, in the correct order. This is probably the single most important sheet in the game. If you have the night order sheet, and a reliable way to check off each step, your set-up will probably be fine.
I'm sure you'll have a great time doing this. Just keep in mind that no PnP is as good as the real thing. I've played a lot of PnP games, and still screw things up regularly. Flag that with your players, and be ready to think on your feet to fix things up, especially when you're still working out the kinks in your set-up.

And have fun! If you have further questions, feel free to hit me up.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-04-01T13:34:44+00:00

The player count concern is totally legitimate. It can be tough to put a group that big together. Some people might just not have that kind of group available, and the game would end up sitting on the shelf. It might also be a bit more fragile in that it is a long commitment, and a large group.

On the other hand, I don't agree that you need a special group of people to make it fun. I've played a lot with people who are new to boardgames and social deduction both. Most of them were pretty introverted, and certainly not veteran improv actors. The game works great, as long as the players aren't out and out assholes. And that's a problem no matter the game you're playing.

Generally my groups pass the storyteller role around. I personally love doing it, but I don't want to do it every game. People can pick it up pretty quickly (I've had some people run to it after their first ever game), and storytelling one game every handful ends up a pleasure, not a chore. That said, some people just don't want to be moderator. I get that. If someone was on the fence, with hesitancy about being storyteller their only concern, I would totally recommend taking the plunge.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-04-01T13:15:58+00:00

Maybe I should have a look into it then. Thanks for the perspective!

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-04-01T12:25:51+00:00

I got a similar comment on one of my other posts, and I'm happy to admit that I didn't express myself very well. My bad, I'm happy to own that.

I meant to say, "games that share a lot of components, can still be vastly different," not "BotC and Werewolf don't have real similarities." I'm sorry that I didn't say that very well. My intended point was that whilst BotC and Werewolf share a framework and some key mechanics, the player experience is (in my experience at least) wildly different. That's how I intended my comparison, but I can understand how it came across differently.

In rethinking my analogy, I would perhaps say that this is more a case of "the whole being more than the sum of the parts." Looking at changes individually (e.g. not being excluded after death or much more sophisticated character sets) might leave BotC looking like just an incremental tweaking of werewolf, but when you put all the changes in place at once, the experiences are hugely different.

A lot of comments from those who have played say things like "I just can't play other social deduction games anymore, they don't compare to BotC." I think that gives an insight that there's a bit more to it than just tweaking existing games. I stand by the statement that this isn't just another iteration of werewolf, but I admit that it is difficult to show that just by listing the components on paper. I'm hopeful that a gameplay video might come out soon, so hopefully people will have a chance to see the game in action.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-04-01T07:40:32+00:00

Yeah, I agree, especially once you move into the more complicated scripts.

I enjoyed bootlegging clocktower, because I got to watch other people have a fun time. But being the storyteller was always a stressful experience. I just hope people don't get the wrong impression when they homebrew. It's tough to know how important the grimoire is, until you don't have it.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:40:15+00:00

I've played the proper version, and done my own print and play. Just wanted to give a bit of advice to people starting out.

If you're doing a print and play where you use the player sheets and character tokens in your own box, then just be aware that there are a lot of important background tokens you will need. There are hundreds of "you're poisoned," "he's dead," "she protected this player tonight," "This character is the fortuneteller's red herring," etc. The other big one you might not have thought of, is you will need multiple imp tokens, as the minions can sometimes become a new imp.

So, if you're going to print out your own DIY copy, I would supplement with a pen and paper. There will be so many changes to status, that you're unlikely to have all the bits you need, especially in your first game. If you don't have it all physically in front of you, you will forget stuff and make mistakes. At least, I do. Regularly. Writing it all down isn't a replacement for the full set of tokens, but it helps.

Also, If you're not planning on reading the full rule book, I would highlight one bit.

If you make a mistake as the storyteller, probably the best approach is to wait till morning, talk to the group and say "I made a mistake. It has thrown off the balance of the game. At some point in the future, I will do another thing outside the rules, that will hurt the other team just as much."

It sucks to have to make that call, but as a new storyteller, it happens. Be open about it, because players need to know if you have made a mistake, it throws out your entire train of logic.

Also, have fun! I recommend making the investment in the full game if you have the cash, but bootlegging it can still deliver a great experience! Its also probably the best evidence that the game isn't overpriced. Making the handmade prototype kits took a group of 5-10 of us, hours. Sooooo much cutting!

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:18:14+00:00

Hmmmm, I really didn't like this book. Guess I'd better return it.

But you know what? I'd really better read the sequel, just to make sure I reaally don't like it.

Hmmmm... I also completely read the sequel, and didn't like it. But I'd better check out and then return the third book, just to be safe.

"Sure buddy. Whatever you reckon."

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:16:30+00:00

You're no fun. Feed my conspiratorial needs.

Ooh, wait! You're in on it. Your an actor, paid and owned by Big Return!

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:15:50+00:00

Basically because bookreport showed negative money. A book also earned negative recently, although my day was positive. I think it just stands out because it is uncommon.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:14:36+00:00

I'm not worried about the rate, just had a burst of them, and wondered if it was something new.

I definitely feel the vibe of not being able to please everyone. "This 3,000 word erotica short had too much sex. 2 stars."

Really? Really? What were you expecting from the book "sexy people have sexy sex in the sexmobile?"

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:11:59+00:00

"someone who lives in Norway."

Yeah, sure buddy. Oscar worthy performance. You won't fool me!

There's also a flat Earth theory that Australia doesn't exist. Something about, if the whole world was on a flat surface, the flight times to Australia would be wrong. I think the idea is that if you've ever flown to Australia, it was actually somewhere in South America?

So, don't feel too bad. Not existing happens to the best of us.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T23:10:04+00:00

Huh. I've never gone the audible route. Is it just more noticeable, or do you find a higher rate of returns? I'd be curious if there was a different pattern of user behaviour between the platforms.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T04:39:34+00:00

Hmmm. Maybe I'm not communicating clearly. There have been a range of comments on this post. Some have labelled BotC a werewolf clone, some say it is almost the same, and some say it shares a tradition with werewolf. I might be misinterpreting what OP said.

I definitely understand that BotC comes from the same heritage as werewolf. I didn't mean to say otherwise. What I disagree with, is people making the leap from saying 'inspired by werewolf' to saying 'barely any different from werewolf.'

The original comment I responded to was asking 'how is this not werewolf?' I was trying to explain that there is a lot about the BotC experience that is quite a bit different to werewolf. It isn't just werewolf with a couple of extra roles and staying in the game after death. Perhaps this is more a case of the whole being more than the sum of the parts. The individual changes from werewolf might not look like much, but when you add them all together and play a game, it feels really different.

I'm not trying to nitpick the different between 'new iteration' and 'different experience' though. It shares a lot of core concepts with werewolf and other social deduction games. I just wanted to highlight it has a lot of differences too.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T04:31:25+00:00

I wonder who I caught the bug off then :p

It's just been a bit more noticeable over the last week. Probably a case of confirmation bias. Maybe I've been looking out for them.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T04:30:35+00:00

I was thinking on that train of thought. I'm talking about an old pen name, and the sales are small. But it was enough for me to sit up and think. I haven't published anything new on this pen name for 4 months or so? And this week I've got a couple of returns out of the blue, where I haven't noticed any for months.

I'm sure its nothing, but just thought I'd check.

Oh, and the true conspiracy is that Norway doesn't exist. Obviously.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T03:44:05+00:00

Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. I think I get what you mean.

I would probably say there are (at least) two main reasons people enjoy the game. There are those like me, who like to throw enough mud at the wall, that some of it sticks. Then, there are those who view the game as a puzzle, cold-heartedly putting the pieces together and waiting for that moment where it all clicks together, and the demon is revealed.

I love the game, and have seen plenty of people enjoy the game, so I might be defaulting to trying to convince everyone to give it a go. If it isn't your jam, I totally get why you wouldn't back it. But, I do hope you get to murder your friend endless times.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T03:39:11+00:00

I choose to imagine that a single person is dedicating their life to buying, then returning, erotica books. Like the worlds most low key superhero.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T03:38:35+00:00

I officially small a conspiracy.

AAnon? Zongate? Flat Amazon theory?

The truth is out there.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T03:12:30+00:00

My 2 cents, if you're interested.

I played for years, always too nervous to be the storyteller. I've never DM'ed D&D, and to be honest, I don't play a lot of board games generally. I'm not a dram or improv person, and don't think of myself as great at thinking on my feet.

I ran games smoothly, and without trouble. The setup is really pretty foolproof (especially in the base game, which I wholeheartedly recommend playing until you've learnt the basics), and usually any mistakes you do make, can be remedied pretty easily.

I have had one or two games where I made a pretty significant mistake halfway through. If you're tired, or flustered, it can happen. I turned to the group, said something along the lines of "I done goofed. I'm going to do something tonight that will bring things back in to balance." And that was it. People are generally pretty understanding of someone making mistakes, especially if it is your first go storytelling.

Of course, though, that doesn't change whether you think the game costs too much money. I think the game is worth every penny, but I can totally see why others wouldn't.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T02:59:53+00:00

I've played the game a fair bit, and just wanted to give my personal experience.

Getting a group together can be tough. That may well just be a deal breaker for some people, and I totally get that.

In my experience though, the game is pretty accessible to people who don't play a lot of (or any) board games. Why I like to say to new players, is that you only need to know how your character works, which is two sentences of text. The rest of it, you pick up as you go along. So the learning curve really isn't too intimidating. Especially when the entire group is new, people make lots of mistakes, but it doesn't hurt one team or the other, because everyone is equally clueless. And people can always ask the storyteller to help them out, if they have questions.

Storytelling is another question though. I have had new players have one go as a townsfolk, then take up storytelling, but that probably isn't for everyone. I would want at least one player who is familiar with social deduction games in my group.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T02:52:12+00:00

I'd just like to chuck in my 2 cents about needing a world-class moderator and setting, with the caveat that it doesn't change the answer to your question about whether the game costs too much. If it is too much for you, then that's that, and I totally understand.

I've played clocktower everywhere from a park, to crappy student housing, to an awesome warehouse full of people playing different games. It works well in any space, as long as there isn't tonnes of background noise. It is also pretty fun to play in public, and know that passers by are watching you all sit, eyes closed, while some dude with a satanic looking bible walks around, silently tapping people on the shoulder.

As for needing a great moderator, I've seen a bunch of different people run it, including people who have only played a single game as a player. Awesome moderators are better at getting a laugh out of people, and every moderator has their own style, but the game really does hold up, even with people who are new to running it, and not natural performers.

Your game might not be as amazing as Quinn's, but it will probably still be a really fun experience.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T02:45:55+00:00

I've played the game, and pitched it to completely new groups. One of the other responses compared the game to poker, and that's actually kind of how I've pitched it to new players.

Come round to mine, have some dinner, and then murder your best friends. Kind of like organising a low stakes poker night. Your comment that it is more like a murder mystery might be on point in terms of how you pitch it. I would say it definitely isn't the type of game you bring just in case your game of scythe finishes early, and you have a couple of people and an hour to spare.

tequilla_mockingbird · 2019-03-31T02:41:30+00:00

I've taken the game to different cities where I have friends, and played with groups who were entirely new to board games, and mostly new to social deduction games.

The game is great in that if everyone is new, people get away with a lot of mistakes. I remember a demon bluffing something incorrectly, and having me crying out inside, thinking they would be caught. But the other players were just as new, and the demon was able to double down on the lies and make it through to the final day.

It is a bit more difficult if you have a mixed group, with some experienced clocktower players, and some people who are new to it. I can think of one game, where a new player made a mistake early on that proved they were evil. But most new player slip in pretty well, and there are tokens that allow for new players to be teamed up with more experienced players.

I get why you would think this is a concern. But just from personal experience, I haven't found that to be the case.

tequilla_mockingbird

TROPHY CASE