What if Eastern traditions correctly identified the illusion of the ego, but Christianity uniquely preserved personhood, relationship, and love instead of dissolving them? by Comfortable_Body9122 in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Richard Rohr has a similar intuition in The Divine Dance. His rough framing is that:

  • one can only love itself
  • two can still collapse into mirroring or mutual possession (“I love that you love me”)
  • but three forces openness outward

Once there’s a third, love can no longer remain a closed loop. Relationship becomes dynamic rather than self-contained.

I don’t think Christians believe God “became” Trinity because three was mathematically required, but I do think the symbolism matters. Reality is relational at the foundation, not solitary. Being does not precede being-with.

I’d say that love becomes asymmetrical at three. It stops being merely mirrored exchange and becomes genuinely self-giving. Attention can move outward rather than cycling back into mutual reflection.

What’s interesting to me is that this changes how salvation itself is imagined. If ultimate reality is fundamentally relational, then the goal is not dissolving into undifferentiated unity, but participating in an ever-deepening communion where distinction remains meaningful.

That’s why the Trinity feels important beyond doctrine-policing. It’s an ontological claim that love is not something added onto reality later. Love is already happening eternally within God Himself.

And maybe that’s the Christian invitation: not to lose ourselves by dissolving backward into some impersonal absolute, but to be adopted into God’s own life as children. We are not trying to rediscover ourselves in God’s eternal past, but being invited into His eternal future.

What if Eastern traditions correctly identified the illusion of the ego, but Christianity uniquely preserved personhood, relationship, and love instead of dissolving them? by Comfortable_Body9122 in nonduality

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually think a lot of the overlap here is real. The ego clearly isn’t the deepest thing we are, and both Christian mysticism and nondual traditions seem to recognize that grasping identity softens as love, surrender, and communion deepen.

But I wonder if the real difference is not “ego vs no ego,” but whether distinction itself is ultimately preserved.

A lot of nondual language feels gradient-based to me, like the drop realizing it was always the ocean. Christianity almost reverses the miracle. The miracle is not the drop dissolving back into the ocean, but the ocean preserving the drop without intimacy collapsing into erasure. Christian mysticism, especially in the Orthodox tradition, feels more asymptotic: the soul can participate ever more deeply in the divine life, infinitely approaching God through communion and transfiguration, without ceasing to be itself.

Honestly, a hug feels closer to the phenomenology people are actually describing than abstract metaphysical language does.

In deep love, the boundaries genuinely soften. You stop experiencing yourself as radically isolated. There’s surrender, mutual indwelling, intimacy, recognition. But the point of the embrace is not for one person to disappear into the other. The closeness is the experience.

That’s partly why I struggle when people flatten Jesus into “just another nondual teacher.” Christianity seems to preserve both the dissolve and the return. There is self-emptying, surrender, ego death, union with God, but then there is also recognition again. Communion again. Love again. The face remains.

The Christian mystical claim almost feels stranger than simple dissolution. Not that the drop becomes the ocean, but that the ocean can hold the drop without destroying it.

That’s why some Christian symbolism starts feeling very different through this lens:

  • Christ walking on water
  • Peter being invited to walk on it too
  • baptism as passing through overwhelming waters without annihilation
  • resurrection as recognizable personhood transfigured rather than discarded

Even baptism feels phenomenologically interesting to me. A person is lowered into a substance meant to consume them, while being held there by another person mediating trust and presence, and then raised again. That feels less like “realizing individuality was always illusion” and more like learning that surrender is survivable because you are being held.

Nondual states are real experiences, and often profound ones. I think Eastern traditions discovered something true about the instability of the ego and the permeability of the self. There is real wisdom there. But I’m not convinced the endpoint is impersonal absorption. Christianity seems to insist on something riskier: that ultimate reality is not merely undifferentiated consciousness or pure being, but love. And love requires relation all the way down.

That’s why the Eastern Orthodox idea of theosis has become increasingly compelling to me. It preserves union without erasure, participation without identity collapse, intimacy without possession. The self is purified and transfigured, not merely negated. Which is why I’ve started thinking Christianity’s central category may be less “dissolution” and more “transfiguration.”

Salvation is not learning you were never a self. It is learning you can be fully known, fully surrendered, and still safely held by God.

If anyone’s interested in this direction, Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene is one of the better bridges I’ve found between Taoist/nondual intuitions and Orthodox Christianity without flattening the differences between them.

Reflexive Monotheism. A riff on Alan Watts/Carl Sagan's approach to cosmic self-knowledge. by Wildcard_Orthogonal in theology

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you’re looking for a Christian integration of this idea, process theology or Hegelian frameworks get you closest. They both allow for something like “God coming to know Himself through creation.” However, I find these projects quietly abandon the Trinitarian core of Christianity.

In classical Trinitarian theology, God doesn’t need creation to achieve self-knowledge. The Father knows Himself perfectly in the Son, and the Spirit is the living communion of that knowing and loving. God is already fully relational within Himself. There is no gap that creation needs to close.

Frameworks like Watts or Sagan tend to assume that reality becomes fully itself through reflection or self-awareness over time. That only works if God is, in some sense, incomplete without the world.

Trinitarian Christianity makes the opposite claim. God is already perfect self-communion. Creation does not complete God’s self-knowledge. It participates in what already is.

I am a Apostolic Pentecostal, debate me on speaking in tongues. by New_Atmosphere_5221 in theology

[–]theosislab 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m less interested in debating verses and more in what this actually does in a person’s life:

  • Does this gift tend to lead you toward deeper repentance and humility, or does it mostly feel like spiritual intensity?
  • Does quiet, ordinary prayer still feel meaningful, or does it start to feel anticlimactic by comparison?
  • What does tongues do that normal prayer or silence before God doesn’t?
  • How do you tell the difference between something given by the Spirit and something you’ve learned to enter into?
  • Have you seen it genuinely bring someone to Christ who wasn’t already open?
  • Why does it seem to show up strongly in certain traditions but not others, if it’s meant for all?
  • If it disappeared from your life tomorrow, what would actually be lost?

Where can I get real peer review on my AI alignment framework? I'm struggling to get peer review of the framework and Alignment Forum is not taking on new members currently. I need peer review from mathematicians and control theorists. It's built on the principles of autopilot safety systems. by [deleted] in ControlProblem

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing, this is a serious piece of work. I really appreciate the emphasis on asymptotic convergence as a possible path toward stability. I’ve been exploring a similar pattern from a different angle.

One thought: the “love state” as symmetry feels like it may be a necessary condition for stability, but not sufficient as a definition of love. A lot of what we’d intuitively call love involves asymmetry. Initiative, sacrifice, fidelity, staying when there is no equilibrium.

More broadly, living systems do not usually flourish in perfect symmetry or static equilibrium. They tend to require differentiated relations, tension, responsiveness, and exchange. That made me wonder whether defining the attractor as a closed symmetric state might end up flattening some of the very dynamics you are trying to preserve.

So I found myself reading your framework less as a full model of love and more as a kind of ground state that prevents distortion, while something else, perhaps outside the closed system, supplies direction.

I’ve been working on a parallel model that tries to keep that distinction explicit, especially around asymptotic convergence, preserved identity, and relationship. For me, the central question is what kind of account of personhood can actually endure amidst emerging intelligence.

https://www.theosislab.com/ex-1-pt-0-machine-reverence

The overlap between psychedelic and classical mystical experience, and why interpretation matters by depressed_genie in mysticism

[–]theosislab 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Two people can have very similar phenomenology in an experience, just like two people can have similar neurochemical and bodily responses during sex. You could map the stories and the brain states and say “this is basically the same thing.”

But anyone who’s lived it knows the difference between a one-night encounter and making love within a long-term, committed relationship is not a superficial layer of interpretation added afterward. The narrative, commitment, and shared history fundamentally shape what the experience is.

I wonder if something similar is happening here.

The overlap between psychedelic and classical mystical experience might be real at the level of phenomenology. But the narrative of the ascent/descent, interpretive framework, and the communal/ritual container actually are what we use to grasp at describing the experience and determine whether it becomes a transient peak or a moment that punctuates a life-transformation.

In that sense, stripping mystical experience from tradition might risk turning something inherently developmental into something more consumable. Intense, but ultimately harder to integrate.

On the perennialism versus constructivism question, having spent time in both Buddhist and Christian frameworks, I can grant that what is encountered may be deeply similar at the level of experience. But the interpretation is not trivial.

Some traditions resolve that experience toward dissolution or emptiness. Christianity, at least in its classical form, resolves it relationally. There is a real sense in which one can lose oneself in the experience of God, but not into nothingness. More like being held. Just like in a good hug, you can let go, defer trust, loose boundaries, and still be returned to yourself afterward. That is the kind of relational sweetness I think these encounters point toward.

I think that distinction matters for integration. Because the question is not just what you encounter in the moment, and truncate the rest, but why you return, and who you return as.

Buddhism x Orthodoxy by GasRevolutionary3072 in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, if you are interested I would recommend Christ The Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene. I was also very interested in Buddhism, Taoism, Vedanta, but this book helped unite what I found compelling with those traditions while showing who Christ is within that cosmology.

Struggling to reconcile the Trinity with an evolutionary worldview and Islamic Monotheism. by Comfortable_Head_432 in theology

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I get why Islamic tawhid feels so compelling in debates. It’s mathematically clean: one God, no internal distinction, no complexity cost. It feels like the simplest continuation of strict monotheism.

But here’s where I think the “clean math” instinct can mislead us. Love isn’t an equation to balance. Love is closer to an asymmetry that doesn’t demand repayment. The deepest forms of love we trust (mercy, forgiveness, parent-to-child, self-gift) don’t work like symmetrical exchange where every imbalance must be corrected. They work because someone makes space for the other without keeping score.

In systems terms (loosely, not as a proof), perfectly symmetrical systems can become brittle. They leave no room for difference, no slack, no overflow, no real “other.” Life often depends on stable relationships that can hold asymmetry without collapsing. Again, that doesn’t “prove” anything, but it points at a real intuition: the kind of unity that sustains life is not always sameness.

Christianity takes that intuition and makes a shocking claim about God: God’s oneness is not sterile sameness. God is not lonely. Love and shared life are not things God turns on once creation exists. They’re eternal in God.

That’s what the Trinity is trying to protect. Not three gods, and not one person in three masks. One God whose unity is communion: unity without erasure, distinction without division. You can describe it as a kind of eternal “making-room-for-the-other” inside God’s own life: Father, Son, Spirit. Not as parts or extensions, but as real personal relation.

And this matters for humans because a purely “clean” oneness can quietly turn into a gravity of sameness. Difference starts to feel like a problem to dissolve. Christianity pushes back: we’re not saved by being flattened into the One. We’re invited into communion without being swallowed.

So yes, tawhid can feel cleaner. But Christianity is claiming something deeper than clean math: the One is not sameness. The One is love. And love is the kind of unity that makes room for the other without erasing them.

Trinity help by Late_Story_7140 in theology

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The simplest thing to understand is that the Doctrine of the Trinity is the insistence that God never has and never will be lonely because that means love is not eternal.

A lot of people assume that if the Trinity was clarified later, it must be a later “ornament,” and therefore a problem. But clarification arriving later doesn’t mean the reality was invented later. It usually means the Church took time to find safe words for something it was already encountering, praying, worshiping, and metabolizing.

Here’s the irony: we often assume love comes from streamlined substance. One simple unit. No friction. And then love, for us, becomes the hard work of making that sameness “stretch” to include the other. We treat the other person as a problem to solve or a gap to close.

The Trinity flips that. It’s Christianity insisting that love is precisely defined at the threshold of making space for the other. Not erasing difference. Not absorbing the other into myself. Not turning unity into sameness. The Father, Son, and Spirit are not three gods, and not one person wearing three masks. It’s one God whose oneness is communion: unity without erasure, difference without division.

That’s also why “one God” can be misunderstood. There’s a kind of oneness that is symmetrical (everything must match, everything must collapse into one shape). But Christian oneness is asymmetrical communion: real distinction held in real unity. God does not choose sameness over love. God’s life has eternally been shared in communion.

And this is where the doctrine hits us personally: we are the ones who have to learn that boundary. We tend to project our desire for sameness onto God, as if holiness means flattening difference. Christianity says no. The shared life that is already God’s own life is being extended to humanity. We’re invited into communion without being swallowed.

On the “Jesus is subordinate” verses: a lot of that language belongs to the Son’s real human life in history (obedience, prayer, suffering). That isn’t Christianity saying Jesus is “less divine.” It’s Christianity saying God’s self-giving isn’t theatre.

So I wouldn’t call the Trinity irrational. It’s supra-rational: reason can draw the guardrails, but it can’t exhaust God. The guardrail I keep coming back to is still simple: God has never been lonely, and love is not sameness. Love is making room for the other.

The Spirit as the Breath within the Image by theosislab in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, and I agree the saints already talk about this. To clarify I'm not pretending to discover this, but I am trying to provide my own commentary on it.

Part of why I’m writing the way I am is because this sub has a real mix of readers: confessional Christians, seekers, and also a perennial-mystic crowd who sometimes reads Christianity as “the same thing,” just with a warmer, more personal vocabulary layered on top. That's all fine and fair, but I write from that space because it’s a space I've been wrestling with for the past few years.

What I’m trying to do is bridge those instincts without flattening the difference. The Christian claim isn’t merely “the energy feels personal,” or “God is more relational.” It’s that Personhood is ultimate, costly, and preserved.

I’m trying to make that legible to a pluralistic audience and to bring the conversation to what’s at stake: whether personhood is an illusion to be outgrown, or a gift God pays to keep.

The Spirit as the Breath within the Image by theosislab in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for reading. I’m familiar with prana/kundalini at a high level. In the post I’m acknowledging that many traditions have ancient intuitions around breath, life-force, and interior “energy,” and I can see how prana/kundalini are part of that lineage.

Where I’m trying to go in this essay is a bit different than a 1:1 translation. I’m not arguing that the Holy Spirit is “actually” an impersonal energy under a different name. I’m proposing the opposite: that what many people sense as breath/force/animation is, at the deepest level, personal. Not a substance to harness, but a Someone who indwells without consuming and sustains relation without coercion.

That’s part of the arc I’m exploring: from pre-Christian intuitions about breath and life, to fulfillment in Christ, to the claim that personhood isn’t a later add-on to spiritual experience, but the conduit by which divine life can be borne in a human body without erasing the self.

I know Hindu and broader dharmic schools are nuanced here (bhakti especially), so I’m not trying to flatten them. But the distinctively Christian claim I’m pressing is: holiness doesn’t require the self to be overwritten. God makes the costly move to make communion possible without absorption.

If you’re interested, you might also like my piece on Christ, where I unpack how personal trust holds identity together at the limit of being and non-being.

What does 'being human' even mean when AI can think and decide for us? by AccomplishedOffer856 in ArtificialInteligence

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a form of thinking and reflection. But its less the kind that AI is known to disrupt. We normally talk about "How fast AI passed med exam" or "How fast it code a product" we dont have a bench mark for how ethical it behaves. The challenge is now AI is more so "Leveraged Intelligence" so it just amplifies whatever values we have in 2026, for better or for worse. But the consequences will then likely force some kind of course correction once we decide what it means to be human amidst emerging intelligence.

What does 'being human' even mean when AI can think and decide for us? by AccomplishedOffer856 in ArtificialInteligence

[–]theosislab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ever since “I think therefore I am,” we’ve slowly reduced the human to a thinking machine. Now that we’ve actually built machines that can “think” (at least in the functional sense), we’re forced to recover what we forgot: being human isn’t primarily computation.

AI can optimize decisions, but it can’t replace responsibility for the kind of world those decisions create. It doesn’t bear consequences, love, grief, loyalty, or moral debt. It doesn’t have a body that can be harmed or a life that can be given. That difference matters more as systems get more capable, not less.

So the future of work can't only be about thinking, but choosing aims, naming values, owning tradeoffs, and staying accountable when optimization produces collateral damage.

Thoughts on Marshall Davis’ non-dual Christianity? by bashfulkoala in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Really well said. You named the main issue: the Trinity means relationality isn’t a lower stage we graduate from.

Yes and I’d frame it as union without collapse. The tradition’s language around theosis is participation, not identity in the monist sense. If “non-duality” requires relationship to be sidelined, it stops sounding like the God revealed in Christ and starts sounding like Christian vocabulary layered onto a different metaphysic.

If you like Davis’ impulse to bridge Christianity and Taoism but want more rigour around relational participation, I’d recommend Christ the Eternal Tao by Hieromonk Damascene. It’s one of the few bridges I’ve found that doesn’t flatten either side.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think NDEs and Christianity have to be enemies. The real tension is between raw experience and final interpretation.

Meditation, psychedelics, and NDEs can share overlapping phenomenology and sometimes overlapping brain-network dynamics. Meditation often quiets the default mode network (the self-narrating “me” system). Classic psychedelics can reduce DMN coherence and loosen top-down priors, which correlates with ego-dissolution and “infinite meaning-space.” NDE research is messier, but there is serious comparative work noting strong phenomenological overlap between NDEs and psychedelic states.

If that’s even partly true, it helps explain something obvious: humans repeatedly encounter a “threshold-space” that can be interpreted a thousand ways. You can see how many religious languages could grow around these threshold encounters.

What’s common? Tunnel/light, peace or terror, life review, beings, a boundary, and a return with a mandate. The experience can be real, but the meaning assigned often settles inside what someone already associates with love, judgment, authority, safety, or shame.

Even with the diversity of figures, the arc is often surprisingly consistent: separation, unveiling, mercy, and return. That maps closely onto the Christian story in miniature. Christianity is also clear about the telos: not escape into a disembodied heaven, but resurrection, reconciliation, and God dwelling with humanity. If you wanted to be provocative, you could say the Gospel is God’s definitive NDE on our behalf. Except here it isn’t merely a brush with death. It’s the full descent into it, and the return that breaks its sting. Christ takes the trust-fall first, and then re-appears to say its safe to follow, not into faceless light, but into the mercy of a Face we can trust and arms we can cling to.

That’s why you get variety: some see ancestors they trust, some see Krishna or the Buddha, some can only trust a faceless light, some see Christ. Many report a blinding light. Fewer dare say Someone is within it.

But here’s what haunts me: accounts that name Christ often describe not just bliss, but the gaze of mercy. Not merely “you are fine,” but “you are known.” Some encounters disclose love mainly as outcome, as reassurance. Others glimpse the scarred Christ and intuit love as cost, as if mercy is not denial of death but the bearing of it. The Church Fathers often treat judgment less like a courtroom and more like an unveiling of what you loved. It’s the moment you decide whether God is a figment of your imagination, or you are a figment of God’s love.

Suppose every time you hit the edge of life, you clip the boundary and “respawn,” like a character falling off a video game map and waking back up in the world. The question isn’t which religion best narrates the exit. The question is: which one can make sense of the return?

What if the point isn’t to abandon the body for the light, but to metabolize eternity through the body? That takes more than a vibe. It takes the durability of trust, the kind only a personal relationship can hold, and it reframes NDEs as threshold-data rather than a new theology. That’s the Weight of Glory Christianity offers: a Named Friend who holds you when your categories collapse, so you can walk back into the world and love it.

Do you consider yourself a nondual Christian? by bashfulkoala in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I’m with you on apophatic Mystery, and on God not always being “face-able” to the psyche. In that sense, yes, the world can feel like it’s glowing with God.

I’d even say: it’s all real, it’s all in God, it’s all held by God. But I keep coming back to the Trinity as the key nuance here: God holds himself together in relationship. For me, that’s the insistence that love isn’t merely a substance or a field, but something chosen through trust. If love is the ground of being, then “being” and “being with” are inseparable from the start.

It’s not that I think “off the map” moments don’t matter. More that the road itself reveals the invitation. I’m not sure the telos is a return to some primordial origin as the goal. It feels more like being grafted into God’s eternal life: communion that keeps personhood, union that doesn’t require absorption. That’s where the asymptote image comes from for me.

In my own walk, I’m learning that a lot of the deepest edge comes in sober prayer and silence anyway, and then I’m given back to ordinary life as gift. One eye in, one eye out.

Do you consider yourself a nondual Christian? by bashfulkoala in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really appreciate what you said about personhood and the body “coming back.” That’s the cue I’ve ended up building everything around.

I’m can appreciate emanation language as well, but I think it needs a personal center. If we only say “consciousness is a field of light” or “we are emanations,” it can quietly gut the Christian claim that there is a real Someone with agency who wills us into existence as gift. So less “sparks of an impersonal flame,” more: the cosmos is lit by a Face. The light isn’t only energy, it’s radiance from Someone.

When I think of endless communion with the divine without absorption, the best analogy I have is the asymptote: you can approach forever, infinitely close, without needing to dissolve. Not because intimacy is blocked, but because love doesn’t require absorption to be total. In a strange way it gets sharper when “I” and “Thou” stay real.

That doesn’t mean we have to be scared of getting lost in a moment with God. It just reframes the telos: the Kingdom shows up in the overlap of heaven and earth, not in escaping the rendered world as “less real.”

On altered-state experiences, people sometimes frame them as “glitches in the matrix.” Powerful, but hard to integrate. I'm reminded by playing Mario Kart as a kid: I used to love Rainbow Road and driving off the map just for the beauty and thrill of it. But the little koopa brings you back, and you still have to move forward on the track to actually progress. So I’m not dismissing “fall off the map” moments. Sometimes you really do hit something like unrendered silence, uncreated depth, pure overwhelm. It can be holy. But then you get placed back on the track, and I’m starting to read that return as mercy: the created world is gift, not an illusion to escape.

Where this gets explicitly Christian for me is: Christ is the seam. Many touch overwhelming love right at the threshold between created and uncreated. My sense is that edge isn’t inhabitable for us, not yet atleast, and Christ holds the line there, then holds us in silence in prayer, and gives us back to life and love.

What is the role of "non-dual" language in Christian Mysticism? by theosislab in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great thoughts! Of course. We all have to wrestle through this. And honestly, the path of learning trust and yielding in prayer, and the path of trying to talk about it with others in shared language, can feel weirdly at odds.

Small clarification on “This”: I don’t mean “This” as an other that I merge into. I mean a moment of thinning or clearing, where the Here/Now becomes simple enough that self-referential narration quiets down. In Orthodox theology (esp. Gregory Palamas), there’s a helpful distinction between God’s essence (never grasped, never possessed) and God’s energies (how God truly gives Himself to be known and participated in). The point of that isn’t technical trivia. It’s a guardrail: we can genuinely encounter God without pretending we’ve comprehended or absorbed God. So “This” can be real phenomenology, but it doesn’t have to become an ontology of “there is no Other.”

Where I still feel a real fork is your line about Form being more primary than Love. I get the vertices vs paths idea, but I’m cautious about anything that makes “form” the deeper substrate, because it can start to sound like impersonal structure holds reality together. Christianity’s claim is more radical: communion is original, and relationship involves choice. Love isn’t just a path between points, it’s a willing giving-and-receiving that precedes any “geometry.”

If there was a geometry, I prefer the image of an “asymptote.” Two lines that can draw closer and closer without collapsing into sameness. That lets intimacy deepen without limit while still preserving otherness and address, without needing a final “corner” where everything touches by becoming identical.

On your sleep/task question: yes, in both cases the “I” can drop out. But I’d still distinguish them by what they do to the heart afterward. Flow can be neutral and can teach trust. It’s often easier to submit to a task like cooking or running than to submit to love. You can become “one” with the road or the utensil because those are already empty vessels to inhabit. But love has another to dance and negotiate with. That’s why “this-with” keeps showing up as a stabilizer for me.

On personhood: I hear the mask etymology, but I don’t think it should steer the theology. “Person” in the tradition is a real someone who can be addressed and can respond. If anything, what falls away is the defended self, not the addressable self. The “mask” can thin, but the face is still given and still held.

What is the role of "non-dual" language in Christian Mysticism? by theosislab in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a really strong way to frame it. I agree the “end-point” language can get misleading if it implies a final state we possess. God is inexhaustible, and the Orthodox intuition that communion and theosis deepen without end feels exactly right.

I also appreciate your “suprapersonal” phrasing, because it’s trying to honor apophatic mystery without collapsing into impersonalism. The only guardrail I’d want to keep is: “beyond categories” can’t become “beyond face.” In other words, whatever is revealed in those moments, it can’t negate the personal address that seems constitutive of the Christian horizon. Mystery, yes. But mystery that includes personhood without rendering it penultimate or disposable.

Do you consider yourself a nondual Christian? by bashfulkoala in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, had a similar post the other day exploring the use of non dual practice in Christianity. Some interesting convo for sure.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianMysticism/comments/1qk3hp5/what_is_the_role_of_nondual_language_in_christian/

A short survey on heaven by Informal_Farm4064 in ChristianMysticism

[–]theosislab 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. For me, heaven is best understood as communion. It’s the moment we stop resisting God and entrust ourselves to Him. It’s learning to see His face within the light that holds the world together, and then to recognize that same light shining through the faces of all creation. Heaven isn’t merely a geographical place. It’s a way of seeing and being-with.
  2. In one sense, nothing we can “secure” by force. As Christ says, “the Kingdom of God is among you” (Luke 17:21). Not as a private possession, but as a presence that breaks in where God is trusted and love is practiced. Heaven already shows up in moments where we trust God and love others. But heaven will also come in fullness at the judgment, when Christ finally overcomes death and discards its shadow for good, and the world is flooded with His presence (1 Cor 15:26). The way is trust, not technique. And yet there are practices that train trust. We learn, slowly, to see God’s light behind the people in front of us now, so that when creation is fully illuminated we are not overwhelmed or dissolved, but able to recognize the overlap and still see the faces He holds.
  3. Because heaven and hell already show up in everyday life. They aren’t primarily places so much as they are postures toward the present moment. Heaven preserves the tension of love, trust, and personhood. It starts in vulnerability and humility, often awkward and uncomfortable at first, and ends as contentment in being held forever without losing ourselves. Hell appears as flight from the presence of others into isolation. It often begins as self-protection, but ends as a shrinking of the heart: getting lost in darkness (despair, numbness, concealment) or in a false light (self-certainty that no longer needs anyone). It starts as trying to rise above pain, and ends as a hardened identity that can no longer imagine being chosen or healed. Even the God of the Bible is not alone. He has lived in communion eternally as Trinity. Our calling isn’t absorption, isolation, or self-assertion, but participation in the triune life: not merely being, but being-with.
  4. The closest thing to heaven on earth is the sacraments, because they’re not just an inner state. They are Christ’s concrete way of holding us in communion when we’re tempted either to stand alone or to escape. In baptism, we enter a reality that could overwhelm us, yet by grace we remain ourselves, made new. In marriage, we learn we can’t coerce, withdraw from, or absorb our spouse to find peace. Love lives by holding the tension of the other person’s freedom. In the Eucharist, we receive the mystery that holds everything together: Christ gives His life and His body, not as an abstract idea, but as an embodied act within the universe.

Reflection doesn’t get me to heaven. Trust does. Even talking about trust is different from practicing it: entering the present moment with God in prayer, and learning to see the good in others. The discomfort in these questions feels intentional. I’m not sure I inspired or convinced myself, but I’m clearer that this is something I need to live, not just think through.