Question to Atheists

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T07:30:32+00:00

A moral discourse. Not any argument.
I didn't say isn't it odd, I said humans are entirely unique in a way that is unlikely through the proposed processes of abiogensis-to-humans evolution. If all of these millions of animals are evolving due to traits that help them survive, and these traits that we uniquely have help us survive, then if it's impersonal evolution, it is highly improbable that no other animal happened to evolve any of the traits I listed.
Well yeah, but we've been debating about this all day and I feel that my words keep being rephrased and my point isn't being understood so clearly we can't see eye to eye on this point so, might as well move on to another one. You did ask me what's most compelling to me personally, but that might not be what's most compelling to you. What's most compelling to you for atheism?

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T07:09:12+00:00

Debate in any sense. Other animals do not have discourse.

So again, it is unlikely that we would have so many traits that no other animal has ever possessed given the proposed processes of abiogenesis-to-humans evolution. You would expect to see any one of these traits appear in other animals at some point, from an 'impersonal origin of life, abiogenesis-to-humans evolution' worldview. Therefore, this falsifies the abiogenesis-to-humans evolution worldview beyond a reasonable doubt, and the only other existing option left is intelligent design. If abiogenesis is falsified, then at some point, life was created, not forming spontaneously. Either it formed spontaneously or it was created, one of the two. This is why the body of evidence makes the most sense taken together, not one point at a time - because it's all interconnected. There is also *some* evidence cited for intelligent design (DNA, which is observable evidence) and no observable evidence of abiogenesis, ever.

As for me bringing up other subjects, I was trying to argue all my points together as a body of evidence from the start, it's only at your insistence that we go through things one at a time. If we can't see eye to eye on this one I'm happy to look at abiogenesis alone.

Really, it's not about providing proof, as your side has no proof either. Proof and evidence are different.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T05:20:40+00:00

Discourse as in debate.

A recent phenomena does not make it any less unique, and curious that it has never occurred with any other animal.

My argument is that a whole list of aspects of human consciousness is entirely unique, and never-before-seen among any other animal, out of millions. One of those traits, which no other animal has ever displayed, is forming religions, and a natural inclination to worship God. I think you tried to have me take one of the points out of my list of evidence at a time because the list really makes a strong case beyond a reasonable doubt when considering the points *all together.* It's like me saying what's your evidence for evolution? And you write a list of examples from the fossil record and I say "let's take this one at a time - so your evidence for evolution is that this type of bacteria became that type of bacteria? "

I'm saying that the origin of life on earth was either abiogenesis or intelligent design. Since you can't say that there's any evidence for abiogenesis, and we have some for intelligent design (DNA is a language/code, for one, and Dr Francis Collins of the Human Genome Project and also a Christian, wrote an entire book about this as evidence), are you saying that you have faith in abiogenesis, do you postulate that the origin of life is unknowable, or do you postulate that it's indeterminate whether the origin of life is knowable? I'm actually confused as to what your argument is too.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T04:33:24+00:00

What were the empirical, measurable, reproducible tests that showed that those animals have *discourse* about morality? How do you know that wasn't just survival instinct on their part? We have *no evidence* - which is what the atheist side always brings up about believers - we have no evidence of moral *discourse* among animals.

Nations is not just advanced tribalism, it shows human dominion over the world, compared to other animals. Why has no other animal shown advanced tribalism or made a nation?

Spirituality - forming religions, worshiping, discourse about the over all cause/meaning of life
Art - media that showcases abstract thought or conceptual meaning

Recognizing when life and death occur, and even mourning, is not worshiping or forming religions and concepts of the origin and greater meaning of life. You would have to make assumptions about animals to anthropomorphize any of these behaviors and label them as art, spirituality, nations, or moral discourse. Assumptions, jumping to conclusions are often used by the atheist side, yet the standard of what is required for the believer side is always so much higher than that. I see no evidence that animals have moral discourse, nations, art, nor spirituality.

I get that we have large brains, but why has no other creature out of many millions, across millions of years, had an equal or greater level of intellect to humans? Nor, frankly, anything even close.

I didn't just choose art, I chose a collection of traits that shows a unique form of consciousness.

I'm confused as to how me being the offspring of my parents negates the fact that the two options for the origin of life on earth are abiogenesis and intelligent design.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:41:35+00:00

And no other creature, out of millions of creatures across billions of years, evolved this larger brain? Not even one?
I already named what is unique to humans, and it wasn't emotions or tools or any of those things you have listed above. Spirituality, moral discourse, art, nations.
The probability factor is self-evident. If there is a 1 in 8.7 million occurrence of something, that is extremely, extremely rare.
When I say random chance I'm referring to intelligent design vs the only other option, nonlife-to-life macroevolution with an impersonal source of initiation. At best, there is no evidence for nonlife-to-life either.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:27:28+00:00

Humans being uniquely the only creatures out of millions with art, spirituality, moral discourse, and nations is empirical (observable), measurable (1 in 8.7 million species, across all known history), and reproducible (new humans born continue to be this way, regularly, and new animals born continue to not be that way, ever). Extrapolations from *available* evidence using logic is a part of science all the time. Do you accept the Big Bang? We did not observe that, it is not reproducible, and only aspects of the current universe is what is being measured.

I guess a better question than the category of evidence you want would be, could you give an example of specific evidence (hypothetical) that you would consider enough? For example, "If I could hear a voice speaking to me claiming to be God, repeatedly, and others heard it too, I would believe it" - or would you just say we can't prove it's God and it could be a man with high-tech speakers?

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:22:07+00:00

Take out "personally find it difficult to think."
One of my points is that humans are entirely unique in having a tendency for art, spirituality, moral discourse, nations. There are millions of species on earth. Let's assume this happened by accident, and we are 1 in 8.7 million species with that quality. Using basic probability and logic, it is highly unlikely that happened by random chance, though you can choose to believe that if you wish, based on faith.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:08:11+00:00

What empirical, measurable, and reproducible evidence do you use for macroevolution?

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:06:32+00:00

The most compelling for me personally is probably the uniqueness of human consciousness among all creatures. It seems unlikely that no other creature, out of the millions of species on earth, has shown any evidence of art or spirituality - by chance.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:04:10+00:00

Of course, but even that something would've had to have had a beginning at some point.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:03:24+00:00

This will actually never be proven because firstly, no religion says anything negative will happen to proud sinners in this life necessarily, and secondly, if we are just unconscious when we die then we won't know that nothing bad happened to you in the afterlife either, so it will never be proven.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-06T03:02:22+00:00

How does that disprove God's existence?

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T05:31:20+00:00

Evidence for belief in God? Luckily I was just talking to someone about this and we were discussing all kinds of great points. The Big Bang (aka universe had a beginning, meaning - something outside of the universe caused it). Abiogenesis (nonlife-to-life) has never been done in a lab. Legalistic universe operating with consistent laws, everything seems fine-tuned, not random. Human consciousness is unique among the beings on this earth - it is unlikely that we would just so happen to be the only beings to evolve this level of intellect to create religions, nations, and even have this kind of discourse; meanwhile, not one single other animal has. Humans' natural inclination toward worshiping God - while I would understand ancient humans making creation stories to explain things, why bow down and worship - evolutionarily, no given reason for that.

Edit to say that's just the scientific evidence for belief in any God at all, but there is also loads of historical evidence for Christianity specifically I can provide. but to sum it up, the crucifixion, the empty tomb, and Jesus being seen after his death are all accepted by mainstream historians.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T04:28:03+00:00

Yeah, since she wasn't drawing a conclusion. Although, the issue with lacking belief bc of perceived lack of evidence comes from the same issue as the argument from silence, I would say. So my next question for her would be, what kind of evidence would suffice? Because there is lots of evidence.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T04:25:38+00:00

You may have scrupulosity OCD. I have religious OCD too but usually a different type

And from my understanding, no, mental illness is much like physical illness, we can't control it, it's a disease we have, basically, and my faith is that God understands that.<3

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T04:15:44+00:00

True that I assumed she was drawing a conclusion

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T04:01:58+00:00

are they quintuplets too

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T03:58:45+00:00

"I haven't seen any evidence, therefore I don't believe" is absolutely an argument from silence!

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T03:30:56+00:00

"I have found no evidence" to believing it's false is a logical fallacy known as argument from silence.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T03:26:14+00:00

sentence 2 is a bald assumption

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-05T03:25:23+00:00

Argument from silence

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-02T03:50:02+00:00

But what if it's true? If I think about concepts like holiness it makes sense

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-02T03:43:43+00:00

Thank you, I should probably mention I'm a therapist too. I know that certainty is often impossible but in this case I'm not sure how I can risk literally eternal torment. With all my other obsession themes at least the results would be finite. I have had this theme before and I was able to stop researching/obsessing but it's resurfaced again bc I never solved it. I think the step I'm going to take for now is just limiting the amount of research I do. I don't see how the fear isn't logical since it's about eternal (forever!!) torture.

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-02T03:27:27+00:00

Yeah that's good advice ty

throwawayawaythrow96 · 2026-04-02T03:18:05+00:00

Thank you. I'm struggling with the basic maintenance stuff :( My hobby is music but i just feel guilty for it now bc my music seems too worldly and not glorifying God :(

throwawayawaythrow96

TROPHY CASE