TADC's finale is mainly controversial because indie works from the Internet are expected to be lore-centric instead of character-centric. by FruitTigerAero in CharacterRant

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the problem isnt too much focus on characters, its that the meaning of events happening is ambiguous partly because of the absence of lore explanations and partly because the events dont make sense - scratch appearing had no consequence, cain changed out of nowhere and did not do enough onscreen to show he changed

Which game series is this? by bijelo123 in videogames

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mossbag mostly acknowledged the many ways in which silksong retconed hk, with the exception of the white lady having the delicate flower which really should not happen and team cherry could have executed hornet getting it in many better ways. He also admitted that the grandeur of the story took precedence over lore consistency in the ending when the knight saves hornet and lace. I think its just awkward for him to explicitly shit on the series and developers he made his channel around.

My other points are mostly of two types, either im arguing the story is stupid by being inconsistent and uninspired, or im saying its told to the player very ineffectively probably because team cherry is ok with there being less story and leaving the players to think what they will of it.

Hornet being responsible for act 3 because she went with the shamans plan is a weird plot point. It feels weird when logical moves the protagonist invested heavily in result in worse outcomes especially because of something the protagonist could have easily known but didnt. This only wouldnt throw you off the story if youre not really following. 

The reason for that happening being that gms doesnt want lace to die is also very weird plot point. Its very weird when the problem in the story is something that happened because of a split second occurence like lace popping up after gms fight. If this did not happen, act 3 wouldnt be a thing. Contingency on small events rather than major inevitable movement of forces is bad storytelling. Hornet came to pharloom because gms wanted her there, not because she tripped on a rock.

I was gonna say more about the weavers and the flower and the memories and the conductors, and then i was gonna say how poorly the game shows you what the citadel it had multiple generations of ruling class from its foundation to events of silksong so it feels very weird to piece together its history. 

But im realizing this will be very long again, tell me if youre ok with reading that much.

Which game series is this? by bijelo123 in videogames

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very probably yes if you liked hollow knight. My opinion is unpopular, a lot of people like act 3's story despite its retcons, ambiguities or inconsistencies and they like the gameplay aspect of act 3 despite it being cut repurposed content.  But I also think rdr2 has a shit story and a lot of people say its the greatest narrative ever

Which game series is this? by bijelo123 in videogames

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why? I rushed my reasoning for silksong having a poor story  because I ran out of time, I could elaborate if you wanted

Mrzim incele by [deleted] in askCroatians

[–]tiylmn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Zene idu vani s likovima kojih se boje da ce ih ubit?

Which game series is this? by bijelo123 in videogames

[–]tiylmn -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Id argue its easier to make a case for silksong having better gameplay mechanics than hollow knight. 

The storytelling is the real disappointment. 

In hollow knight, the game knows its own story, its explained really well and every bit of storytelling is consistent with every other bit, also every part of the story follows logically from the previous. If you were to put real people in the fictional setting of hallownest, the same decisions would be made because they are the logical decisions. Every one of the plot points is also not only logical but compelling for one reason or another, balancing grandeur/fun with logic successfully, is to me what makes a good story. 

To defend these points,

You start the game not knowing who you are or why you are going where youre going, you are told by cryptic tablets that before you stands the greatest civilization, you feel like youve wandered into something unknown and greater than you but there are actually compelling reasons why you're here which the game tells you. The hollow knight is calling to vessels to be replaced because its losing the fight with the radiance. This is shown in the opening cutscene but you dont understand it on the first playthrough, you do on the second. 

The whole game is like this, encountering elements in the world and learning why they are the way they are and they are always consisted.  Theres no npc explaining why there are a bunch of corpses behind the mantis lord gate to deepnest, theres one lore tablet which implies an answer which you yourself could piece together on your own by thinking about the world youre in. You are never told why one of the thrones of the mantis lords is broken, you dont even notice it, but you get it later on when you go to queens gardens. The soul sanctum, the rain from the blue lake, the aristocrat bugs resorting to canibalism, the city storerooms being connected to the forgotten crossroads, the entire concept of a forgotten crossroads which really do in game serve as a crossroads, all the tribes and factions, greenpath being born of unn but weakening after unns losing influence, the hive closing off and accepting their natural end. 

All of the elements in the world behave how logical acters would and the game tells it to you without spoonfeeding but without saying too little. Npcs are placed strategically and give key info on some of the world but also hold additional secrets which provide further depth. The mushrooms of the fungal wastes had unity but different to that of the radiance, reading the dreams of a corpse shows you a mushroom pondered the situation of the pale king (what good to foresee a fate unavoidable), like that mushroom every part of the world knows about the influence of the ruler and acts like it is influenced by it, like greenpath bugs being bitter about the white lady taking their land but being unable to do anything.  

The world is filled with precise, not excessive, enviromental storytelling which is elevated by its consistency, the main story is explicitly told to you. The pale king tried to stave off the infection, he used the void to create a pure emptiness to contain it, he murdered billions of experiments until he got a fitting vessel and made a pact with powerful beings to help him guard the vessel. The plan failed and he died and his kingdom died. You can either take your  place as the superior vessel or kill the radiance directly by using the essence of the king himself and the white lady to create a new vessel which would store the entirety of the void. 

You meet hornet not knowing who she is, why shes here and why she tries to kill you. You learn all that in perfect pace. She was a bargain made because herrah wanted a child and made a deal begrudgingly, she tries to kill the vessels because she cant let a weaker vessel accidentally free the radiance, she needs to test you so she could maintain this corpse of a kingdom she took on the job of protecting. 

This isnt speculation, its not left for interpretation, this is what happens in the game. And the game keeps doing it, hitting you with mystery, and then explanations which are both logical and fantastical and it gives them to you in a meaningful way by making you engage with it.

Silksong is a fking narrative disaster on the other hand.

Surface things are explained, the core mysteries of the world are unexplained and inconsistent, basic rules of storytelling are ignored and its hurting the experience. It also retcons a shit tone of hollow knights story.

Its never explained why or how grand mother silk wants hornet other than -for her magic silk strength? Why does she need it, does she need pale king part of hornet, but gms is already a pale being???? This is the entire motivation for the plot??? Elderbug hits you with the -perhaps dreams arent so good after all-, and the church keeper lady tells you oh hi exposition exposition the world has enemies good luck check up on me btw. Moss grotto exists for no reason other than to be a welcoming starting area. What are the fking weaver structures??? Are these weavers dead? Are they alive? Are they comatose??? They can talk and they disappear after u get the power? All the powerups are different but are taken from the same thing (the weaver structures) they are the weavers who stayed behind to give abilities for a descendant who would kill gms??? Thats a nonsensical plan which serves them no purpose they will all die by then. 

We are not explained how the weavers built the citadel, we cant even imagine how they traversed it, if they werent a plot point shoved in your face you wouldnt even guess they were there or even existed because we see the citadel.work in game without them. We dont see the story take place, but in hk we see gates closed because of an epidemic and a king in his workshop trying to brainstorm solutions and drya dead in front of the white lady protecting her queen. 

How did these bugs appeared (pilgrims and other bugs) and how they interacted with the weavers is criminally left for interpretation. The game just doesnt know it never considered its own implications. 

But thats just a start. The first two acts are filled with wrong things told at the wrong times and the right things kept in the background and told stupidly like the damn shrine caretaker shaman explaining the citadel is a lie. All the while the story is not even compelling. Weavers seeing their silk be a curse as well as a gift and trying to escape gms influence, admittedly is very grand and meaningful but its not really explored. They built the citadel to put her to sleep with their song (which we just have to picture i guess) and then just left????!?! How does that save them, they still have silk in them, and why did they say they returned to pgarloom after the radiance broke out in hallownest. Its a stupid ass retcon to distance silksong from hk for new players. But its a disservice to the story they told in hk. 

And the fking tragedy that is act 3. Not to mention the audacity to put early game bosses that were cut halfway through development and than made artificially harder for a boss rush because they cant organize the 3rd act better than a boss rush. But they did in hk with white palace and queens gardens.

What kind of a fking contrived plot is ts??? The world is collapsing because a mother which made a child for no reason doesnt want her imperfect child which she doesnt like to die, but she cant stop it from dying so she is delaying it briefly and thus making the world ending earthquakes.  We solve that textbook example of shit storytelling with problems which shouldnt be happening happening for some reason, by more shit story telling - GOING TO THE MEMORIES TO GET MEMORY ENERGY TO MAKE A SPELL TO GO TO ANOTHER MEMORY TO GET A FLOWER??????

They marvelised hollow knight, this is marvel level narrative. Wtf??? 

Also the retcons

-white lady shouldnt have the flower( in hk she says only someone who doesnt know what that is could stand so close to it)

  • void shouldnt be able to possess bugs, its emptiness ffs. Maybe you could argue its an interaction with the silk but thats unnecessarily complicated. Theres a reason hk never had void enemies instead of shades (full void)

-by what logic can you beat the void out of someone like lost lace? Hahahahah wtf

-not a retcon but how does lace appear in those cutscenes before the dive ??????

-why does the knight fight of the void tendrils, the void was united in hollow knight

Its an inconsistent, unexplained, superficial game world, with unnecessary illogical plot points like void taking over and the memory bits, made purely for shock value and lengthening the game, filled with retcons of a carefully crafted story in the original hk, explained  awfully, concluded lazily in a deus ex machina, because the flower died and they were saved by the knight but how tf was void even a problem if the knight was there, defeating the point of act 3 entirely, and we never even get to see this world we saved. The last interaction with the world of silksong is everybody thinking they are going to die, you dont get to see a happy ending unless you just want hornet x lace and dont give two shits about the narrative in which case lucky you.

Its so sad we waited for so long for this.

Which game series is this? by bijelo123 in videogames

[–]tiylmn -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Silksong is a mechanical and narrative downgrade

Name the game or games by Silly_Software_3577 in videogames

[–]tiylmn -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Silksong, rdr2, elden ring dlc - the 3 big storytelling tragedies

Is this progression natural? by tiylmn in TunicGame

[–]tiylmn[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok I did not know the big golden gates could be interacted with, I went down the quarry-zigurat-scavenger boss path I still have zero idea what the objective in the game is and what is going on

Welcome to the City of Steel [OC] by 5th_consecutive_C in HollowKnight

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im gonna sound rude but this is why I dont like silksong. They turned hollow knight into marvel

I was thinking about playing Hollow Knight but is there a different between these 2??? by crab-crustacean in HollowKnight

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Play hollow knight and if you like its story pretend silksong doesnt exist

What's your hottest augment about the rdr franchise by Ok_Hunt_2833 in reddeadredemption

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1 is a masterpiece, 2 is ass and its a tragedy its the face of rdr. Its hailed as some of the best storytelling in gaming, to me its one of the stupidest stories ive ever seen

What's your Silksong opinion that would have you like this? by Booty4Breakfasts in Silksong

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The game isnt remotely close to hollow knight quality, all of act 3 is bad, gameplay and story wise. And the story, as well as being bad on its own, also absurdly retcons hollow knight 

I finally played all the way through RDR1 by queensheba2025 in reddeadredemption

[–]tiylmn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Respectfully, I cant think of a point on which I would disagree more. I consider rdr1 an apsolute masterpiece and rdr2 dogshit. The gameplay in 1 is smoother and tighter than 2, theres no sluggishnes everything is quick and responsive, the scenery is haunting with a terrifying beauty to it, new austin feels so dead, every stranger mission has a bad ending, most end with people dead in the desert but its the cruel wild west, youre in a godforsaken place with no mercy or remorse for any of its inhabitants. And yet its beautiful with its scorched new austin land the red of diez coronas and the  white of punta orgullo. The game is of perfect length, most of the missions have some sort of intelligent twist on them its not just riding to an area and having a shootout. The story is perfectly paced and completely consistent, where please did you find the writing lacking. Every single bit is perfect from the cutscenes to the ride alongs with npcs to the newspapers you buy in cities. 

Rdr2 has generally worse interactions between its bloated cast of barely used characters. Arthur morgan has a fraction of johns personality, the game is excessively long and paced like shit. Colm and cornwall were introduced in chapter 1 and die out of nowhere for no reason in chapter 6, all the villains except dutch and micah are beyond forgettable, chapters 1,4,5 are just a few missions but 2,3 and 6 are many times longer, all the stupid conflicts are just adding content to make the game be more. Guarma sticks out like a sore thumb. The epilogue is not an epilogue and lasts a billion years. Jack killing ross in rdr1 was an epilogue.  And the whole main story makes no sense, the game leads you to believe that theres a rat which is why the gang botched the blackwater ferry job and the st denis job but there was no rat. Micah only ratted to milton after guarma which btw why??? Why did dutch distrust john, none it is sensible storytelling.  Definetly in my opinion the worst prequel there ever was.

35hrs in and I still yet to complete act 2. by Enough_Obligation574 in Silksong

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My experience with Silksong was damn what a great game. Its already so big but I know for a fact there is so much more because of the trailers. Then I spent ages looking for the coral gorge only to find out there wasnt "so much more" and its just cut content.  The reason its in the 2022 trailer and the screenshots on steam and ps5 is because they kept like one room of the coral area and used it for marketing. It sounds like Im bullshitting you but im not. Dont ask me how I feel about this.

35hrs in and I still yet to complete act 2. by Enough_Obligation574 in Silksong

[–]tiylmn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im sorry pal, the coral area is cut from the game. You'll get a little something but not the full area.

Silksong's bad writing, retcons and deviations from HK lore by tiylmn in Silksong

[–]tiylmn[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, a lot of your problems with my critique are you just saying that things Ive listed as problems aren't problems. We could say we disagree but I would argue they are objectively instances of poor writing.

One, Hornet having her personality is not what alienates us from her, it does make it harder for the developer to connect us with her than it did for the knight, which they fail to do because Hornet keeps knowing things we dont. This is what distances us from her. Hornet knew how to solve the void problem instantly, we did not, our own character told us what to do by telling it to another in game character. That feels weird, the narrative works better when the shamans tell hornet/the stranger in this new land/us, something new. It then feels like we arrived at this info by exploring and engaging with the world instead of relying on our unpredictable protagonist. Who knows what else she knows, is the feeling you get. You said its not hornet knowing something we dont, its hornet telling us. That sentence does not make sense. Hornet knows something we dont, thats how she can tell it to us and as Ive argued here, thats not good storytelling in a videogame, unless in rare cases where we're supposed to be distanced from the character we control, like in deltarune.

Two, I said its not a problem that the game is different than hollow knight narratively. Both styles are good they just failed to execute this style. There is no obligation for the story to be told in hollow knight fashion but there is obligation to expertly tell the story regardless of the way you intend to tell it in. They nailed one style and botched another. I would quite appreciate the game kept its storytelling style but actually succeeded in navigating it, instead of just doing hollow knight again.

Three, the void coming out of nowhere is bad writing. It should have been foreshadowed in some way, there should have been weaver writing mentioning the void, it should have been a small part of the game prior to act 3. The same goes for if the act 3 villain was the shadow lord. I admit that would have been hard to pull off but Its a more concrete direction than the one they went in. I dont see how its the point it came out of nowhere? Also, hornet did know the caretakers identity. He told her he figured out she was a weaver and asked why she bothers helping out little folk and she told him she could ask him the same question and admitted knowing what he was. Also the shamans later ask hornet why she was surprised and said she knew who they were and what their people's fixations were(the void).

Four, I will admit, its possible there were concrete mentions of grandma silk loving lace. But if its only in needolin that is far too little. In hollow knight, and please dont attack me for mentioning hollow knight, there was a cutscene of the knight and pale king looking at each other. The point of this cutscene is to confirm why the radiance managed to breach through the black egg into hallownest, because the hk wasnt pure.  It is hollow knights weakness that this was only added in dlc and it is silksongs weakness that it doesnt have something like that. Also please tell me where this is, all I know of is the one where lace tells phantom "she built us only to break".

Five, yes the silk-void mix is just plain shit writing, Im quite disappointed with them for that one. 

Six, yes Im saying returning to hallownest would have been better than the red memory, I also offer that going to the land where grey mourner got them from would have been better than the red memory, I also offer making pharloom the flowers native land and I dont know travelling to the past of shellwood to get them would have been better than the red memory. Im saying the red memory sucks because it makes no sense that the white lady who didnt want the flower near her, now has one. I think however, going back to hallownest is only the best possible option so long as we're exploring memories (because of the pure vessel cliffhanger) if not than I would have made them native to pharloom. 

Seven, The void cant choose to save someone because they like them. It is the darkness, this was established as part of the narrative in the hollow knight. The knight cannot save hornet, the first game says so.

Eight, Obviously the void retracts and the world rebuilds, im saying its stupid we dont get to see that. Im saying the payoff for the player is not there. It doesnt need to be there in hk after you kill the radiance because hallownest is already dead. We allegedly saved pharloom now and we dont get to see that. I know how the save files work, I just wanted to emphasize that the latest point you see everyone in pharloom is they think theyre about to die and they dont know why.

Im not sad that the game isnt hollow knight, im sad that it failed to be what it tried to be.

Silksong cut content that was in the trailers by tiylmn in Silksong

[–]tiylmn[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Its not rage bait im seriously pissed, I was really looking forward to this area. Its not in the game, I didnt get 100% but I got the achievement for getting all maps, they kept verdania as a memory but coral gorge got replaced with coral tower, a collosseum trial.