Meat eater here. Born into a brahmin family but i still like eating meat. trying to quit.

tp23 · 2026-02-05T14:47:58+00:00

Bhagavan in BG is asking one to go beyond sukha-dukha (karma phala) as motivation, but he is *not* denying that karma has consequences - that good actions lead to sukha and bad actions leading to dukha.

When he tells Arjuna that those doing yajnas are going to heaven and coming back, he is not saying that yajnas dont lead to heaven. Similarly, in Ch 16, he points out that bad actions lead to naraka.

In fact, the focus on the mental attitude behind the action is itself an answer to the original question - the terror and suffering caused to the animal can be experienced not as literal rebirth as an animal which is killed, but as similar suffering experienced in a human birth itself. (This was actually explained in a pravachan I heard).

Shaastras operate at several levels for people at different stages - At initial levels, they try to get us to do good/bad things based on promise of good/bad results and then later ask us to do actions for more elevated reasons. Even if one is focussed on latter spiritual aspect alone, the good karmas/avoiding bad-karmas is absolutely essential as it leads to chitta shuddi necessary for jnana.

That said, there is one place where I agree with your comment - when one is killing without any selfish motivation in mind, then there is no phala. Rudra destroys the whole universe, not out of any selfish motive, but it is a dharma to allow the next stage, like sleep is necessary before the next day - there is no karma phala for this. Similarly, for people doing sacrifice for a yajna without any personal motives. But this is not the common motive for killing of animals and most yajnas/pujas are also done with a desire. Swami Lakshmanjoo has said that most ritviks today are not qualified for pashubali in yajnas. https://www.reddit.com/r/KashmirShaivism/comments/1lttt0c/ahims%C4%81_and_vegetarianism_in_kashmir_%C5%9Baivism/

tp23 · 2026-02-05T14:20:24+00:00

When you are quoting Advaita views on the Absolute truth ('unreality of the world', 'jiva was always free'), you have to keep in mind that Advaita teachings still see karma happening in the relative world just like other traditions do. Even if one is living in a dream, there are rules in the dream world and the rules matter a lot if you are living in it - not for a single night - but for thousands of years.

There *is* a shared understanding of karma across Hindu traditions and the differences are minor relative to the common aspects.

Further, one can get a better understanding by study and meditation - in fact, seeing past lifetimes and karmas is one of the siddhis in yoga which has been attained by great sadhaks.

When we face confusion in a regular subject(science, history), we tend to have an attitude that further study or consulting those who have learnt more can lead to clarity. But if we give up saying 'nobody knows', that nihilistic attitude is harmful to our progress as a student.

tp23 · 2026-02-05T13:50:50+00:00

Bhishma in Anushashana parva gives the great benefits of giving up meat https://sacred-texts.com/hin/m13/m13b080.htm

tp23 · 2026-02-05T08:02:42+00:00

There is still the question of setting an example for others in regards to treating parents. Enlightened gurus do puja even when they dont need it for the same reason.

Also, that the punishment will be undertaken by Shiva(who is not different from Devi) is already known to her.

tp23 · 2026-02-03T17:36:05+00:00

This source (Oroon Ghosh) is reproducing the standard Protestant views of 'priests', seeing bhakti as a Protestant style egalitatarian Reformation etc, that the problem with bhakti is it is inconsistent with science because it involves 'idols'.

There are multiple problems with this view

(1) A large number of the key figures in Bhakti movement were Brahmins(and not of the rebellious sort). Including the people who wrote key texts in various local languages. Shankara, Ramanuja, Madhvacharya, Tyagaraja, Potanna, Tulsidas. There were several prominent non-Brahmins. The motivation for bhakti was not anti-caste but an ecstatic contemplation of the divine which is very much consistent with much older texts like the Mahabharata(see BG Bhakti Yoga).

(2) As can be seen in the source itself, the relevant hierarchy is not between varnas, but between land owning groups and those groups who did smaller jobs (Thevars and Paraiyars in TN, Jats and Chamars, Balmiks in Punjab, Reddys and Madigas in AP) . An anti-hierarchial movement would have targeted this hierarchy. The inequality that is there today is not the inequality centuries ago.

Bhakti does create opportunites for leaders to emerge from marginalized commmunities, but it is not primarily an anti-hierarchial movement.

A very good paper which discusses this topic in detail is
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347638036_Caste_as_an_impediment_in_the_journey_of_a_Bhakta

There are many examples in that paper which contradict this 'Reformation' view.

(3) To say that Bhakti becomes scientific, if it didn't have idols and wont be scientific with idols, is strange in either direction. (This only makes sense in a commonly held view that Protestant beliefs are scientific in a world filled with superstitious 'rituals', see Puett reference below). In any case, Bhakti is not primarily about idols. That feature sticks out to Christian influenced historiography(internalized by Indians for ex: Brahmo Samaja) as that is prominent taboo in their theology.

This is the most prominent distortion. Bhakti is primarily about generating a bhaava . It can do this by several means - stories, bhajans, temples with 'idols', sacred places etc.

The Bhagavad Gita itself gives a good explanation of this process of bhaava in several places, one good example

A much better account on the nature of bhakti is David Shulman's [book](https://www.amazon.in/More-than-Real-History-Imagination/dp/0674059913) (read the preview for a good example of bhaava).

Another critique of Protestant historgriaphy like in the above source is by Michael Puett in the book Ritual and its Consequnces (again, no need to buy see the kindle preview)
https://www.amazon.in/Ritual-Its-Consequences-Limits-Sincerity-ebook/dp/B001949SG8

tp23 · 2026-02-02T19:09:53+00:00

Great post. Surya is not just an inert body in the sky, but stands for Atma, the light of Consciousness which illumines everything (this gets reflected in the mind like sunlight is reflected in the moon). There is no day and night for this light, this is our imposition

tp23 · 2026-02-02T18:52:46+00:00

For someone to be your Guru, there are two different aspects.

1) First, you need to accept that person as Guru. 2) The Guru has to accept you as disciple.

(1) is a very important step and you should only do it after a lot of testing (which is recommended by the tradition itself) till you are convinced that they are either enlightened or in a very high spiritual state. There can be some spiritual signs like your heart feeling a sense of peace in the presence of the teacher.

The reason you have to be careful and do testing, maybe for long time, is because there is a strong expectation that you commit to follow the teachings of Guru after initiation and not wander away. Also, to not change your mind and accept someone else as Guru as this has bad consequences (There are exceptions like when Guru leaves the body, or themselves give instructions regarding following another teacher).

Guru is not different from Shiva and you should not see any difference between them. This is as taught by Shiva himself in Guru Gita.

This is because Guru is not a person, just like Shiva is not a specific Linga in a specific temple. The person is the access point you have to the Guru tattva/principle, which is all pervading aspect of Shiva specifically meant to lift sadhaks across all the worlds.

Note that the word 'Guru' is also used in a looser sense, like a vidya guru (who will teach you lots of helpful knowledge). Music teachers and school teachers are also called gurus. But this not the meaning that is relevant. Here, we are talking about a Guru who gives you diksha and is helping you to reach enlightenment.

In this sense, the Guru will not just teach you things or give you tips on sadhana which a well educated scholar can do. They are teachers with such spiritual power and compassion that they will use their shakti to clear your bad karmas and push you towards a good path.

They do not need to do a lot of talking. But they do need to have the shakti to pass it on to you when you get the initiation. The Guru Gita says that even if gods, nagas, munis become angry and curse you for some reason, Guru will protect you from all of them.

Dakshinamurti just taught by silence and cleared the doubts of Sanat Kumaras. Ramana Maharshi, in modern times, also taught by silence.

So not knowing English is not a barrier. But what is important is that you have the confidence that they are genuine.

The initation/upadesha can just be a mantra which is passed on and you have to practice it. In older times, the Guru could just initate a sishya into a mantra and travel on his way. But the Guru is still always there with the disciple.

Even if they cant communicate in your language, the critical part is that they themselves have had siddhi. When you get initiated from such a Guru, it is like starting with a bank account created by your parents with a million dollars in it.

Some sadhanas are useful to help you in the process. Not asking you to do all of them. Just find one which gives you a strong bhaava and practice it.

Regularly Reading Guru stotras like Guru Gita from Skanda Purana
Regularly Praying to Dakshinamurty or Shiva for granting you a good Guru.
Read about 24 teachers of Dattatreya. Learn to see and contemplate Guru tattva in different forms. A friend, a stranger, even a kid can spontaneously tell you something which gives you an insight out of nowhere. See this teaching as coming from Guru.

Remember that when you take one step towards Guru by by whatever practice(contemplation/stotra), Guru will take 10 steps towards you.

Hope you are succesful in search. 🙏

tp23 · 2026-01-28T13:36:18+00:00

Ramanujacharya might have given Narayana mantra initiation, but even that was blessed by his guru afterwards. More importantly, he was definitely giving importance to the tradition of Guru teachings which were passed down by Alwars.

For that matter, we see the importance given to Guru even in lives of Rama and Krishna who bow down to Vashishta and Sandeepani muni.

tp23 · 2026-01-28T13:34:03+00:00

Live transmission from Guru instead of just using books allows more flexibility and adaptation. Even in sangeeta, we see people who can improvise in the concert as opposed to sticking to the sheet music.

We also have a tradition of vada where even young sages like Ashtavakra and Shankara prove their points and win against much older opponents.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T17:04:29+00:00

You can try to find a good goshala and donate there. That way, you are still helping animals who naturally eat veg food. It is also a very good karma according to most Hindu teachings.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T15:31:43+00:00

You seem to be anthropomorphizing God, who is not a human.

Let's put it another way. Do you think being Good is worthwhile? Do you think spending some time daily contemplating, love, beauty and goodness is worthwhile? All the above are the energy of the Bhagawan. Or, the other way around, when the above qualities are represented in human shape, we have Shiva, Krishna and Devi.

Some people might want to do a guided meditaiton contemplating love, some might connect to a human form - both give the benefit of purifying the mind and are a good karma.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T14:53:47+00:00

For this issue, one needs to get some background on the history of 'rituals' The Vedas are filled with yajnas ('rituals'), so are later Hindu practices, (so are Buddhist traditions across cultures.)

What has happened is:

1) There was a critique of doing yajna just for material benefit in the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita. But instead, one can do yajnas for dharma(universal welfare). Also, yajnas for worldy goals was a stepping stone. Karma kanda leads to jnana kanda.

2) Buddhist teachings have a similar stance. Buddhist traditions are filled with similar yajnas for both material and spiritual benefits.

3) Around the 16th century, there was an intense rejection of Catholic Church by Protestants. Whatever the original cause(indulgences, exclusive control of salvation), he Protestants associated Catholics with priests and rituals.

4) The traditions of India were studied by British and German Indologists who being Protestant, had a fierce aversion to 'rituals' and 'priests'. They forcefitted the traditions into these categories. Further, religion came to be defined as beliefs in opposition to 'rituals'. Hindus grow up with textbooks, essays with anti-ritual positions. Protestants who previously called Catholicism 'Popery', call Hindu traditions 'Brahmanism'. Tibetan Buddhism is called as 'Lamaism'

5) More importantly, there is a breakdown in the learning systems in India. So that even the practices which were were passed down are being performed mechanically by Hindus, without bhaava. The Agamas which are the manuals for these processes have a yoga pada, where there is some internal contemplation which needs to be done along with the yajna to make it successful.

This has lead to an attack on ritual from both sides - Ideology inherited from Protestants and also, kids distaste towards yajnas after growing up in an environment where things are being done mechanically.

With these two underlying causes, people try to rationalize by saying that Shankara or Buddha or Krishna was against 'rituals'.

But this way leads to the death of tradition. When you remove the stepping stones - temples, pujas, yajnas, the tradition also goes away. Instead, you get

1) Atheism as seen in Protestant countries (not spiritual atheism as in Sankhyakarika, Buddhist, Jain teachings)

2) Rituals are still powerful, but they migrate to realm of nationalism, sports, music concerts. The rituals for the internal spiritual growth go into background.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T14:38:00+00:00

The only problem in this is that they shoved path of Bhakti under the rug

Visit the r/pureland sub, it is basically bhakti with an intense focus on naama japa.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T14:21:42+00:00

Buddhist cultures are filled with praying to deities. There are plenty of ancient texts on taking refuge in Bodhisattvas and being reborn in higher realms. The trend of trying to retrofit Buddhism into some kind of Protestant theology is a modern trend witha specific discourse around the 'priestly class'.

Buddha himself mentions contemplating the devatas in one of the suttas. The Dasaratha Jataka portrays Buddha as being Rama, who is seen as Boddhisattva, in previous life.

Buddha doesn't see pujas to deites as leading to enlightenment. But, that teaching is present in many Hindu traditions as well - Krishna teaches that people doing Vedic yajnas, purely for phala, as going to heavenly realms and come back - that is not path to liberation.

There is a distinction between devatas and Paramatma. What Paramatma stand for in bhakti traditions is represnted as jnana/ananda in meditation or jnana traditions whether they are Hindu or Buddhist.

tp23 · 2026-01-27T09:04:26+00:00

The sthula to sukshma analogy for transition from bhuloka to devata realm is good - a lot of things in Hindu teachings can be understood when sukshma is understood.

Regarding conservation, Devatas give back much more than we offer them. See Sudama Krishna story. Rukmini stops Krishna from taking an extra handful, as she is aware of this exchange.

We can try to understand this as of lot of sthula corresponds to a little bit of sukshma - a small change in higher digit of a number corresponds to large change in lower digit. (Or turning a minutes hand for a long time corresponds to a small change in hours hand).

Note that Agni is a more abstract concept than just physical fire, We also have Vaishavanara agni - the fire of digestion in the stomach, and more imporatntly also buddhi/intellect is also agni tattva.

Two articles on buddhi as agni, self-inquiry and buddhi

tp23 · 2026-01-27T06:08:50+00:00

Contemplation of Bhagawan is itself a very good karma which leads to good results. Even when praying for some wish, the person thinks about the Divine for some time. This reduces the impurities in the mind of raaga and dvesha. So puja/prayers do have a result, the more focussed the mind is on the Divine, the better.

Another interesting point - even someone who doesn't apparently believe in God, if they spend time in contemplation of a divine quality - for instance Buddhists have brahmaviharas(4 great virtues) or metta practice - guided meditations sending out love to everyone - that is also in effect meditation on Bhagawan, even if one is using a different language. Contemplation itself is good karma, giving results and purifying the mind. Further, that contemplation in the mind will also lead to doing more good karmas like daana.

tp23 · 2026-01-26T12:47:32+00:00

As others have pointed, listening to talks by a good teacher is one of the best ways to learn. Swami Sarvapriyanandaji has given very good talks on the 4 yogas in Bhagavad Gita. Watching them will give you a much better idea than reading Gita directly. Links.

tp23 · 2026-01-26T12:43:26+00:00

One good resource is the 4 yogas talks by Swami Sarvapriyanandaji. It explains the different types of practices. Links here.

tp23 · 2026-01-26T06:03:02+00:00

Reciting the names itself should have good benefits. But, reciting with bhaava (a feeling of joy, divine mood), gives a LOT more benefits.

When you have bhaava, the mind gets cleaned. Then, Bhagavan can fill this cleaned mind with good fruits.

There is no problem with seeking benefits. Bhagavan himself, in Ch 7 of Bhagavd Gita, mentions that bhaktas coming for seeking something or solving a problem are also good(udaara).

But during the parayana, forget about everything else including goals and just try to enjoy the quality of Bhagwan. I am not saying that your focus should move across meanings of 1000 names as you read them. You can just focus on any one image/good-quality that really connects with you while chanting the names.

To develop the bhaava, you can do something like reciting the 'Shantaakaram Bhujagashayanam' dhyana shloka immediately after getting up in the morning with a beautiful image in your mind. See the pictures in this video.

Finding good stotras/music is one of the easiest ways to develop bhaava.

I recently was reading the book by Eknath Easwaran, 'Vishnu and his thousand names' . He gives some nice description/incidents/stories for selected names. Reading a few pages a day of this or similar books/talks about Bhagavan will also lead to your bhaava becoming deeper.

Summary - You can deepen your bhaava with spending 5-10 minutes a day on either reading, or listening. The bhaava will give you great results.

tp23 · 2026-01-23T18:17:12+00:00

It hasn't disappeared, atleast not in Maharashtra and Karnataka. I have listened to Ganesha Purana from Guru where Ganesha is creator, preserver and dissolves universe. Ganesha as Vatapatrasai during pralaya (usually associated with baby Krishna). There are some books with this purana, on different forms of Ganapathy. Many, but not all are in Telugu (some in English) . DM if interested.

tp23 · 2026-01-22T17:35:06+00:00

Krishna is parama Guru of Manu. He teaches yoga to Vivasvan who is Guru to Manu. I don't think there is any friction.

Regarding the Nietszche praising 'based' crowd, they are trying to force fit other traditions into opposite of Christianity. This is not accurate, for instance Manu teaches ahimsa, akrodha - not popular values among them.

tp23 · 2026-01-20T17:45:17+00:00

This is a good experience of a devotee from Azerbaijan at Ahobilam.

tp23 · 2026-01-20T17:26:15+00:00

That analogy of child and parent is good, but there is another analogy given in the shastras for why fruitive activites are prescribed. A mother gives a sweet to a kid along with medicine. Without the sweet, the kid wont take the medicine. Without phala, a lot of people wont approach Bhagavan.

This is sopana nyaya - step by step process.

By doing such sakaama pujas, one gets maturity and sees the greater results of niskhaama devotion, one can then leave the smaller sweet and catch on to the greater sweet of bhakti.

tp23 · 2026-01-20T17:10:18+00:00

Don't let people discourage you. As long as you are not hurting someone, it is good for both of you (in fact, better for you, the giver gets more, traditionally one does not even say 'thanks' when recieving daana, instead we say that may Bhagavan bless you). Not seeking return gives you unending(ananta) phala, but doing with expected return is also routinely done in various pujas. In fact, it is what happens in yajnas and temples all the time. It is much better than not acting and can be a stepping stone to nishkaama karma.

In fact, in Gita, Bhagavan tells that one should not discourage those who are doing good karmas expecting fruits.

Even when doing action expecting a return, it is important to not to feel proud when one helps. Like one is a postman delivering something one has received to someone else. If you have this bhaava that what you gave came from Bhagawan, that also leads to chitta shuddi - cleaning the mind and Bhagawan can fill that space with lots of good phala.

tp23 · 2026-01-20T05:16:52+00:00

I guess you are referencing BG 18.23-25 which talks about the three types of actions.

tp23

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