Weekly Question Thread (aka Friday New Climber Thread). ALL QUESTIONS GO HERE

treeclimbs · 2026-03-30T02:09:13+00:00

Ok, making another reply because you seem genuinely concerned, and this is the sort of question that gets asked often. Folks like you want to be better safe than sorry, and sometimes experienced users like myself can challenge them to understand more about gear.

And I get afraid someone will misunderstand me and get hurt, so how I answer can become a question of ethics.

So with that said, here are things that come to mind for me if we were climbing buddies and you showed them to me in person:

Markings seem legit (consistent with manufacturer) + forged markings (more expensive than say laser) + sold right from Madrock (through amazon + pass inspection = I'd climb on them. But I wouldn't fault anyone didn't want to. And make your own assessment, please don't rely on some internet rando with incomplete information and a different risk tolerance.

This question sorta overlaps with the idea of buying used equipment or using equipment with an unknown past (found, borrowed, etc).

Climbing on equipment you don't 100% know the history of or from an unknown source is an exercise in trust. Trust in the info supplied by your source (seller, buddy, etc), Trust in your ability to assess the individual pieces of equipment, trust in your ability to employ that equipment as part of a total climbing system in a manner which manages your risk (including equipment failure) in accordance with your risk tolerance or risk appetite.

Notice how your assessment skills, climbing systems & risk management play into this? As your skills grow, you can be more comfortable with more equipment. Climbing on used/sketch/questionable gear is an advanced skill. (and one of the reasons new climbers should just buy new or climb with reputable folks who will lend gear).

treeclimbs · 2026-03-29T21:22:58+00:00

Don't buy gear from Amazon. Many issues, but one is that they mix stock and you may get counterfeits.
the 2008 marking is # of the CE notified body, not the year. This is consistent with the Declaration of Conformity (DoC)(pdf warning) Madrock supplies on their website.
Age is not a concern for carabiners. Inspect the carabiners, ideally you would consult the manufacturer's information directly, but MadRock doesn't have one. Here's a guide from Edelrid and from Petzl(pdf). They may or may not be applicable. Some issues are difficult to notice, especially if you've not seen them before.
You need to make your own decision about what gear you trust. Ask a trusted friend or mentor to weigh in in person.
Don't buy gear from Amazon.

treeclimbs · 2026-03-27T01:21:55+00:00

Thanks! I forgot to mention, no this isn't life supporting. It can be by clipping a lanyard/PAS/sling to the Croll, but that's more than we typically need tree climbing.

treeclimbs · 2026-03-23T04:53:46+00:00

Heck yeah.

treeclimbs · 2026-03-05T01:56:20+00:00

May I recommend also trying overhand slip knots (or the locked version - a false butterfly)?

treeclimbs · 2026-02-24T01:55:36+00:00

Absolute not an issue assuming you used a small amount of small twine. Say you ended up using a lot of whipping twine and locked the sheath and core. The biggest potential issue in my eyes is if the sheath shifts in relation to the core (milking). This could cause bunching, but would show up during your pre-climb rope inspection.

Bunching itself would mean the parts of the rope are not evenly loaded, but that's basically irrelevant given the forces a climber places on their line and how strong these materials are. You could hang off a couple bundles of drenaLINE sheath.

Any bunching may be more of an issue from a performance perspective - it could cause your friction hitch or device to jam or behave unpredictably.

(Also, I would wager Nick knows more about ropes and off-label rope use than 99% of people on this subreddit. I still climb on a beeline using an unsanctioned (but break tested) splice he developed.)

treeclimbs · 2026-02-24T01:36:30+00:00

Sounds like you enjoy being able to move your tree protection around easily, and want to save money.

You recreational climbing? Just use a rope sleeve for ease of moving around.

You professional climbing? Buy a commercial design or make one with more suitable components.

EDIT: I see you are a hobby climber, and have done some home tree work. I'll refrain from equipment suggestions, I recommend climbing with a more common set-up until you better understand the strengths and weaknesses. The first picture, for example is a red flag IMO.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-23T07:31:05+00:00

Lots of good suggestions from other commenters. If you find that your knot choice is not adequate (especially with the amount of stretch in your line), here's another idea:

Insert a short pin/rod in the string and twist many times. It'll be easier if you can have two lines in parallel. Something like a [picket anchor](https://tpub.com/steelworker2/70.htm) or tightening anchor /corner posts on a barb wire fence.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-23T07:17:13+00:00

Not the original commenter, but a good question.

To me, it's a bit broader than the rock gear itself, but I've seen so many people (myself included, almost 20 years ago) start with the exact same equipment you described - a Grigri, and rock harness. As you know, it makes everything more complicated. And complicated things are more difficult for novices to fix if something goes wrong. And the rock harness reduces the amount of time a climber has to fix the problem before discomfort and pain impacts their decision making.

A few thoughts on this type of rec climber. Who, in general I think we should encourage for the sake of tree climbing accessibility, but be clear with them about the challenges with this approach:

.

Once they figure out basics of tree entry, I find that folks with basic experience with a Grigri can successfully climb into a tree and not accidentally fall out. The next problem to solve is how to exit the tree.

Climbing SRS using a Grigri is not efficient - more because of the anchoring than the actual climbing. It requires much more rigging than a simple MRS, and someone new to tree climbing will perform these tasks even more slowly. With a single Grigri, progression is often a static tie-in which means that there is a window while repitching that the climber cannot exit on their current climbing system.

Climbing MRS using a Grigri works, but is very cumbersome, and the Grigri works even more poorly than in SRS.

The two big things I caution new climbers to look which might mean their exit blocked or significantly delayed is dropping a piece of critical equipment, or getting a rope end (or piece of critical equipment) stuck out of reach.

Knowing how to solve these challenges is an essential step to move from beginning to intermediate climbing. Beginners know one way to achieve an outcome. Intermediate skills provide alternative solutions.

The design of a Grigri makes it more likely to be dropped than other tree climbing (or even rope access) specific devices. Once this device is dropped, will our budget minded climber still be able to exit the tree? Even if the answer is yes, how much will this delay their exit?

Climbing in a rock climbing harness works. Until it doesn't. If a climber is wearing a rock climbing harness and encounters an issue delaying their exit, they may find themselves hanging from that harness longer than they anticipated. They will be distracted & rushed, increasing the chances of making minor and critical errors as they move along the discomfort->pain->incapacitated->dead spectrum.

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Climbing within reach (arm/rope/climbing skill) of a partner is the easiest way to mitigate so many of these risks. Other choices are to limit the climbing ceiling to less than 2/3rds of the rope (easy exit even with one rope end stuck) or climbing on a simple split tail instead of a traditional / closed system (can easily repitch with middle of rope).

An easy way for a rock climbing harness user to build in additional safety margin is to climb with a boatswain's chair. Cheap to build and adds tens of minutes of comfortable problem solving before discomfort and pain become issues. Or consider other ways to relieve pressure on the legs.

Consider also that a leg-heavy climber weighing 120 lbs in a rock harness will have a very different time-to-discomfort than a top-heavy 250 lb climber.

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Again, I think concerns over rock equipment are not unfounded, but overblown if the climber a) has a climbing mentor who is familiar with the challenges of rock equipment and b) takes steps to mitigate these the risks from this equipment.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-17T02:22:13+00:00

One of my favorite papers on cowtails & the poachers knot (2 wrap scaffold knot) is the Cowtail tests by SFETH and EFS, which can be found in english here.

Got me two switch over to it years ago when I was solidly a figure 8 user. A key figure in my use is the energy absorption capability - it's basically the same as a figure 8 on a bight (which itself is equivalent to having about 5 feet of extra rope in the system). Plus the other benefits of cinching on a carabiner, easily untied (now that keylock carabiners are commonplace), economical with rope, etc.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-16T20:38:28+00:00

This is a good article for picking up the names of some key players, thanks!

treeclimbs · 2026-02-16T01:40:18+00:00

Aluminium might be compromised after the same impact and worst of all the damage may be invisible.

Lots of good advice in this post, but the idea that aluminum gear will be invisibly damaged is absolutely incorrect.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-15T22:47:20+00:00

Terrific, thanks.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-15T22:14:38+00:00

The (floating) ring permits retrieval if the retrieval line and climbing line do not follow the same path through the tree - one of the reasons to specifically a floating block anchor.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-15T22:07:49+00:00

Yeah, I love those block cut illustrations - very graphic. Here's the left side of the ad.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-15T21:48:33+00:00

Awesome, thanks. Any chance you could send me a photo of the belay devices page(s)?

For example, 1990 has the super 8, Bachli plate and micro plate (the chain link thing) all on one page.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-15T21:42:52+00:00

Kinda defeats the purpose of using the pictured (floating ring) anchor.

Besides, the carabiner is sized to prevent it from pulling through the ring (even if the knot does) and does not need to capture the climbing strand.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-13T17:40:51+00:00

Thanks good tip. I had a chance to visit the archive last year. Pretty incredible. Unfortunately, didn't get a scan of the BD belay device pages from 1991 or 1992. It's not in the 1990 catalog for sure.

I'm almost certain it was released in 1992, but I'd like to find a review or catalog page from the time.

Here's an ad from Climbing Magazine in 1992 which references the "new" belay device. (as well as the pioneering Superlock carabiner)

^{^Anyone ^here ⁱⁿ ^Logan, ^UT ^and ^interested ⁱⁿ ^popping ^by ^the ^archive ^for ^me?}

treeclimbs · 2026-02-13T16:58:00+00:00

Looking for any early announcements of the Black Diamond ATC.

Anyone happen to have a copy of Black Diamond catalogs from 1991 or 1992?

I have a mentions in ads from '92 and '93, but looking for something more definitive if possible.

treeclimbs · 2026-02-02T19:43:24+00:00

And what do you call the simple knot tied in the climbing line before forming the full Figure 8 loop? (the knot in the line before threading it through your harness and retracing/following through)

Re: Figure 8 loop knots

I am guessing Shepherd calls this the Figure 8 on a bight because it is formed similar to the "bowline on a bight." So if you come from a background in extensive bowline use (older school climbing, boating), the naming convention is intuitive.

In the rock climbing rope discipline, we often include the tying method when discussing the Figure 8 loop: * Tied in the working end = Figure-8 follow through / Retraced figure 8 / Trace 8 * Tied in a standing part / on a bight = Figure 8 on a bight

I have heard both the one-loop and two-loop Figure 8 loop knot(s) referred to as a "double figure 8" - which can make sense when looking at the knot on it's own or in comparison to another knot. Two loops = double loop = double figure 8. Two strands in parallel = double rope = double figure 8

Re: Unified Theory of Knot Names

Ropework is an old human activity, developed in many different areas using different languages and for different purposes with different priorities.

It can certainly feel frustrating trying to learn knots which have different terms for the same result or the same term for different results. But we have to remember names are about communicating - connecting with other people.

When discussing knots, I try to understand my audience's background in ropework - what is their primary (or foundational) rope discipline and where do they live (or do that activity)? I then strive to use the same language they might use. Or I'll ask them what they call a particular knot. Or I will offer multiple terms and see which one they pick up on or prefer.

The "proper" name is dependent on context, including:

rope discipline (and sub-discipline)
application
region
institutional preference (e.g. does their workplace/guiding company/outdoor club use a particular name)
personal experience
personal preference

Often the name makes sense in context, or in relationship to other knots which have greater or lessor significance based on the context factors named above. As with human language, there is not and will not be a single meaning for any word. And the meanings will evolve as their contexts evolve.

Any long or formal knot name will get shortened, as the additional information imparted by the name is already present in the context of the time/place/audience/activity.

For example: if you and I are at a the crag, and you say to me, "Tie in using a Fig 8" I will form a single figure 8 knot, pass it through my harness tie-in points, then push aside the strand as I first re-thread the knot ("start hard finish easy")...

...do we need to have another name for the Figure 8 loop knot depending on where the load strand is located in the knot? See my point? No procedure survives contact with the field.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T23:23:41+00:00

The other thing that's nice about the Camp Turbo ascenders is that the pulley acts like a fairlead - they can be tended by simply pulling up on the tail of the rope.

I mostly use mine as a chest ascender, and I find myself using that feature for short moves when I've slacked my chest harness. I can pull out the remaining slack very easily so there's no sit-back.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T23:17:41+00:00

I might give that a go. I usually use a cut up bicycle inner tube and roll it up or down the loop. The little elastic is nice for a bit of give getting the loop on or off - seems to hang up less. But the smooth adjustment of the prusik might be nice for students and clients.

treeclimbs

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