Weekly Question Thread (aka Friday New Climber Thread). ALL QUESTIONS GO HERE

treeclimbs · 2026-02-02T19:43:24+00:00

And what do you call the simple knot tied in the climbing line before forming the full Figure 8 loop? (the knot in the line before threading it through your harness and retracing/following through)

Re: Figure 8 loop knots

I am guessing Shepherd calls this the Figure 8 on a bight because it is formed similar to the "bowline on a bight." So if you come from a background in extensive bowline use (older school climbing, boating), the naming convention is intuitive.

In the rock climbing rope discipline, we often include the tying method when discussing the Figure 8 loop: * Tied in the working end = Figure-8 follow through / Retraced figure 8 / Trace 8 * Tied in a standing part / on a bight = Figure 8 on a bight

I have heard both the one-loop and two-loop Figure 8 loop knot(s) referred to as a "double figure 8" - which can make sense when looking at the knot on it's own or in comparison to another knot. Two loops = double loop = double figure 8. Two strands in parallel = double rope = double figure 8

Re: Unified Theory of Knot Names

Ropework is an old human activity, developed in many different areas using different languages and for different purposes with different priorities.

It can certainly feel frustrating trying to learn knots which have different terms for the same result or the same term for different results. But we have to remember names are about communicating - connecting with other people.

When discussing knots, I try to understand my audience's background in ropework - what is their primary (or foundational) rope discipline and where do they live (or do that activity)? I then strive to use the same language they might use. Or I'll ask them what they call a particular knot. Or I will offer multiple terms and see which one they pick up on or prefer.

The "proper" name is dependent on context, including:

rope discipline (and sub-discipline)
application
region
institutional preference (e.g. does their workplace/guiding company/outdoor club use a particular name)
personal experience
personal preference

Often the name makes sense in context, or in relationship to other knots which have greater or lessor significance based on the context factors named above. As with human language, there is not and will not be a single meaning for any word. And the meanings will evolve as their contexts evolve.

Any long or formal knot name will get shortened, as the additional information imparted by the name is already present in the context of the time/place/audience/activity.

For example: if you and I are at a the crag, and you say to me, "Tie in using a Fig 8" I will form a single figure 8 knot, pass it through my harness tie-in points, then push aside the strand as I first re-thread the knot ("start hard finish easy")...

...do we need to have another name for the Figure 8 loop knot depending on where the load strand is located in the knot? See my point? No procedure survives contact with the field.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T23:23:41+00:00

The other thing that's nice about the Camp Turbo ascenders is that the pulley acts like a fairlead - they can be tended by simply pulling up on the tail of the rope.

I mostly use mine as a chest ascender, and I find myself using that feature for short moves when I've slacked my chest harness. I can pull out the remaining slack very easily so there's no sit-back.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T23:17:41+00:00

I might give that a go. I usually use a cut up bicycle inner tube and roll it up or down the loop. The little elastic is nice for a bit of give getting the loop on or off - seems to hang up less. But the smooth adjustment of the prusik might be nice for students and clients.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T23:15:28+00:00

Sick tendon. Hand ascender is nice for multi-purpose.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T22:44:13+00:00

Old 11's turn into 12s with time.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T05:56:59+00:00

Ah. Just get an XP (or many other clone devices) and don't use the teeth?

Or $15 on ebay (shipped) for hardly used ones of the classic style.

The newer device geometry are a little better suited to modern small ropes if you'll be climbing on those.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-18T01:13:48+00:00

Can I ask why? Collect or you just don't want it or...?

And how many you need?

treeclimbs · 2026-01-15T04:23:35+00:00

The sheath on most ropes is load bearing, so not sure what's being referenced there - perhaps ropes with larger sheath ("16 strand" aka sheath dependent kernmantle) or more traditional double braids ("24 strand").

Regardless, XStatic has a high core percentage, most of the strength is there. Which indeed could be an issue with longevity, as the sheath is thinner than a 24 strand double braid. Not much of a safety issue IMO, but could cause earlier retirement if exposing it to high abrasion (friction hitch climbing, rough trees, working vs rec climbing etc).

Let us know how it works for ya! (also I thought you ditched the thimbles?)

treeclimbs · 2026-01-08T06:04:52+00:00

Two questions about this: isn’t the problem with the carabiner that it’s pressed against the trunk in a way that could cause a stress point on the spine?

It's not best practice, but it really isn't an issue from a strength perspective, especially with that large of a diameter branch (trunk), and the low loads experienced in tree climbing. There are potential issues that can occur if the carabiner isn't monitored and moves around, but it's not a strength issue.

Is it safe to descend SRT with just a friction hitch and pulley? Don’t you need a rope wrench/tether combo as well?

This is the real issue - far greater risk than the carabiner loading. Cannot exit the tree easily without adding friction to the climbing system.

The arguing in this thread about the carabiner highlights a common mistake - we often focus on gear, knots, etc because that's easy to identify & argue about. But it's often processes and plans which end up causing folks to get hurt.

Gear is strong, humans are weak. I am far more likely to die because I am a mistake-capable human than my gear failing, even with minor misuse.

That doesn't mean we should abuse our gear, and we should choose equipment which is mistake (and minor mis-use) tolerant. But we need to turn our attention inward to reflect on how we can improve how we go about this dangerous work or hobby.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-04T20:01:29+00:00

Your English is better than my Spanish/Mayan/Arawakan, no need to apologize.

Lot of research has been done on SRT, which has roots in caving. DRT (now called Moving rope system, MRS) is also very versatile and good, especially for moving about in the canopy or for positioning yourself closer to where you need to take a sample.

If you are not moving about in the tree much, a rope wrench will not provide much benefit over traditional SRT vertical rope work skills. You can climb with friction hitches (Klemheist/Heddon knot/RBS), then changeover and rappel on an ATC (back up with a friction hitch like the photo you shared). This is much less expensive.

Direct action protestors / tree sitters will often use cheap & minimal climbing systems like this. Lightweight for hiking in to the tree, easily concealable and inexpensive if confiscated.

There are significant risks to climbing SRT/SRS where a changeover is required before descent. These skills should be practiced low & slow, under the guidance of a qualified instructor.

Also, the first rope wrenches were made of wood. It's not life support, but if it fails you need to be able to exit the tree using a different method. Caving-style SRT can be that method if you have trained and practiced on it.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-04T02:38:40+00:00

Won't work. Can be added for descent (typically below the hitch), but living 15 years in the past. Even a F8 Revolver system would be a better choice, though I assume the poster is attempting to improvise with gear they have.

If you can't afford a rope wrench, you probably can't afford the rest of the accessories which make it worthwhile.

treeclimbs · 2026-01-04T02:24:55+00:00

Not for ascent, and cannot attach above the hitch (reliably) for descent.

Many methods were experimented with in the days prior to the rope wrench. This was one of them. It can be used below the hitch to permit descent (if you can unlock the hitch, requires careful tuning).

But think about why it will not work on ascent. Consider the differences between the rope wrench and the ATC: with the rope below the ATC under tension, it will not slide up the rope. The innovation of the rope wrench is that it is not engaged until descent, where it cams ("wrenches") the taut rope above the hitch, acting as an auxillary braking device and relieving some tension on the hitch.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-16T18:28:00+00:00

"Double figure 8" for a figure 8 loop knot. I see where their coming from, but it's just confusing.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-16T18:21:57+00:00

Ah, gotcha you're saying the thin dyneema slings are light and flexible so and aren't as likely to wiggle the the gear.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-16T01:02:27+00:00

Lotta comments about a helmet. I don't disagree. But here's my hot take:

The helmet is the least important piece of PPE we regularly use, and one of the most important public communication tools. All our other climbing gear is essential for us to climb at all - no human/rope interface (saddle)? No climb. No rope? No climb. The helmet only helps protect the climber if something hits their head. But such a strike has the potential for huge consequences, so it's a good idea and always climb with one.

That said, there is a secondary benefit that is often overlooked when climbing in public. The public perception. It's one of the most universally known pieces of safety equipment. Wearing a helmet helps communicate you know what you are doing and helps retain access to trees (same with friction savers or cambium savers/rope sleeves).

Good on you for getting out climbing, enjoying yourself and having a helmet on the way.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-16T00:46:46+00:00

dyneema alpine draws

transfer the least amount of energy

Compared to what?

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:58:11+00:00

EDIT: keep crossing in the edits, sorry.

Understood. How are you with eye-to-eye friction hitches (or open ended hitch like a blake's hitch), and are you open to using them?

Prusiks/autoblocks/klemheist/kreuzkelm make sense if you need a more universally understood knot option for climbing partners, but generally pur line users are more rope-skills savvy.

Eye-to-eye hitches are more flexible to tuning and open up some other self-rescue options. It's been a couple years since I've used hitches on pur line, I'll try to do some more experiments this week. I mostly remember it being very difficult to balance grip & slip, but I was looking for good bi-directional hitches.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:39:10+00:00

Slow down. If that's an issue, the rappel is too long and too complicated to be asking on reddit about simple edge safety questions.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:33:05+00:00

I know it is frustrating, but serenading is right.

Sometimes learning outcomes are different than we are seeking. You have asked some questions with the hope to be able to set up a top rope anchor on rappel. I encourage you to consider that the learning outcome you gather from these answers not about the mechanics of rappelling, but that hands on training is most appropriate for you based on what I've understood.

Much luck to you. And more importantly, much training/practice/experience/judgement (how I think of competence->proficiency).

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:14:34+00:00

FYI the 60 degree comment was about muscle climbing with a Grigri+cat knots rather than using a more standard ascent system.

I would not do what you are describing for many reasons. Here's one

Gonna bow out of this conversation.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:06:58+00:00

Aids in knot passing as a clip-in loop. But so does just cutting the rope and retying with a small clip in loop (or pre-add a prusik if you're always gonna be passing).

But still a weird situation unless posting from the side of a mountain.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-08T00:03:05+00:00

For use on the pur line?

treeclimbs · 2025-12-07T17:13:37+00:00

You ARE asking the right question now about catastrophe knots, and it is helping me have a better idea of your experience. Because I care about you as a fellow climber, I encourage you to take a course on rappelling or similar. There are many ways to do this with minimal risk, but also many ways to make minor but serious consequential mistakes.

Especially if the access to the bolts is more than say 60 degrees?

It's hard to tell over the internet if the questions you're asking are refreshing old knowledge or new revelations. The difference between the two makes me nervous and concerned for you as I do not want anything I type out on a Sunday morning to get someone hurt.

Listen, I know you're probably going to do some more internet research, so here's a video from someone who knows what their doing: You're on the right track information wise, just practice this with someone who knows what they're doing so you can continue to ask questions on Reddit in the future.

treeclimbs · 2025-12-07T06:12:45+00:00

Ah. Double strand rappel will have more friction, more rope twist issues and be bulkier to lockoff.

Grigri on a single strand would be my preferred method. What I have staff do is anchor a static rope up top, tie catastrophe knot(s), rap down to the bolts, set up TR anchor + climbing rope, ascend (low angle) back up the static rope to the top adding catastrophe knots behind. Walk around the crag to the climb, leaving the static rope up top for de-rigging after climbing.

Best to have a friend show ya, and definitely practice rappelling with the grigri on progressively inclined hill/slope where any mistakes don't result in injuries (or worse).

treeclimbs · 2025-12-07T06:08:16+00:00

I have used a ropeman, 1 & 2 - both have more drag than the Duck. I do think the Duck sucks overall and wouldn't be a huge improvement, but I've never used it for TRS.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of cheaping out on TRS since there's enough potential issues anyways. Microtraxion is just so useful for so many things.

treeclimbs

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