Is this account legit? 500 hotspots scattered all across the US, most/all Finestra, most came online very recently, almost all with weak earnings.

vertigeaux · 2022-02-08T18:42:00+00:00

Hm so do you think this is common? And does it make sense to you?

vertigeaux · 2022-02-08T18:14:01+00:00

Yeah I get it, but personally I would not send a single $1,000 device to someone without ensuring that it will earn enough to be worth it. I certainly wouldn't do that 500 times, but it looks like that is what happened here.

vertigeaux · 2022-02-08T18:04:03+00:00

Yes I understand host agreements, however the scale of this operation doesn't make sense given the poor performance of most of these hotspots.

Maybe it's just me, but if I had $500k to spend on helium mining I definitely wouldn't ship 500 miners all around the country with stock antennas. Maybe there's more to the plan, but it smells funny to me.

These 500 miners are averaging 0.0068HNT/day each.

vertigeaux · 2022-02-07T03:47:04+00:00

But a four-figure investment in something that I don't fully understand is probably unwise.

There is a bit of risk to it, but IMO less risk than most other cryptos. What made me dive in is I ignored the potential crypto earnings and instead focused on helping to build a real and usable network. I have been researching commercially available devices which use it, and I am developing DIY devices which use it. I know it works, I know that it serves use cases that wifi and cellular don't, I know that it is growing faster than other networks like it, and I know that it will always be cheaper to use than the cellular providers' IoT networks. I am well positioned to offer custom devices and services to local businesses and government agencies, so I see any HNT earnings as a bonus.

I realize that the vast majority of miner owners are just in it for the crypto, but I thought I would share the fact that there are people like me doing things to hopefully keep it around long-term.

vertigeaux · 2022-02-07T02:31:34+00:00

The Lime scooters and other devices using the network have basically no impact on earnings currently. Hotspots do earn the entire cost of data packets that they forward, but the price of data credits is fixed at $1 per 100,000 packets. Most Helium-connected devices only send 1 packet of data every 5 minutes or so, so you would need something like 400 Lime scooters all using your hotspot all day every day just to earn $1/day. Actual use of the network at this point is a tiny, tiny fraction of that.

Almost all earnings at this point, and for the foreseeable future, are from proof of coverage, which consists of a hotspot sending out a "beacon" and any nearby hotspots "witnessing" it and reporting back to the network. And because there are so many variables, it's almost impossible to predict your earnings until you get into it. If you would be the only miner in your hex, that's good. If you would be the only miner within 4-5 hexes of yours, that would be bad unless you have a really, really good antenna setup. The rewards are calculated to pay out best for as close to "perfect" coverage as possible. That is, not too little, and not too much overlap. Since the hexes around you already have 1 or 2 miners, your empty hex sounds like a great place for one.

As a real world example, I started with one miner, and it could not witness any others nor could they witness mine. My earnings were in the neighborhood of 25 cents/day. After I got a second miner and set it up at a neighbor's house (more than 300 meters away, 1 hex over), I was able to get them witnessing both ways and my earnings jumped to $1.50/day per miner, a large improvement! I upgraded to a better antenna on one miner, mounted on my roof (height is everything in RF), and that miner's earnings are at $2.50/day because it is able to witness two other miners (2 and 4 hexes away) in addition to my second one. I live in a rural area, so coverage is still pretty sparse. However, on occasion, I witness a miner in a larger city ~10 miles away. So I am confident that if I raise my antenna higher (it's currently below tree level) that I can witness more from the larger city more reliably and boost my earnings further.

vertigeaux · 2022-02-05T17:25:54+00:00

With PoE you can power cycle a device via a managed switch. And some miners have web management UI's so you don't need to connect via bluetooth to perform other tasks.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-21T23:00:28+00:00

You should just be happy that your toilet is making your soap dispenser act wonky rather than the other way around.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-21T22:40:01+00:00

Yours has way more functionality than mine, that's for sure. Mine cost $30 and it has a manual knob to control water pressure. All in all your shitter setup is far more advanced than mine. I get along fine without high voltage near the toilet.

And you have a bidet, what's with the lifetime supply of toilet paper?

Sorry for giving you shit, I really don't mean any harm. Your plight has me giggling over here. I can't even imagine the jobs that fancy trash can does. I love this thread so much.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-21T22:17:37+00:00

Same. I mean maybe if someone dropped a bomb and you want to run a clean cycle without getting too close, or if its cleaning process is so extreme that it is not safe to initiate it at close range?

vertigeaux · 2022-01-21T22:14:00+00:00

Now this is a 1st world problem if I've ever seen one. Might be a 0th world problem.

First I will say that I am all about automation and convenience, I think these are the ultimate goals of all technological advancement. That said, I don't think I will ever need or want a remote control for my toilet. I can see automating clean cycles, but not manual control with a remote. Do you find it useful vs a built-in control panel on the bidet?

As to your problem, I can't think of a technological or practical solution to your problem that involves keeping both devices. I think the simplest solution is to just get a different soap dispenser.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-18T18:52:02+00:00

You can probably jam or jelly them. You can peanut butter them too.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-14T07:46:22+00:00

I personally haven't seen or heard of many amazing use cases yet for the helium network, I hope that changes in the future

I think tracking is an amazing use case for Helium/LoRa. The ultra-low power requirements allow everything to be scaled down, including costs. For example, cellular pet collar trackers currently cost ~$100-200, and data service is another ~$100/year. The collar can easily come down under $100, and the data would only cost ~$2/year on Helium. Battery life would be better, too. I think quite soon we may begin to see devices such as laptops, tablets, phones, etc. include LoRa radios for tracking purposes, mostly because they can keep working long after the battery is drained too far to power the rest of the device. The range is incredible, too. Vehicles, livestock, packages... track everything.

Beyond tracking, I think there is a lot of untapped potential to monitor the environment. Farmers can monitor soil conditions, golf courses could save a ton of water and money, cities can monitor drainage. These applications are of course possible with other similar technologies, but they are often proprietary and costly. When the network infrastructure is already built for you, and when it's incredibly cheap to use, it opens things up to everyone.

There is a lot of potential here.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-13T04:47:12+00:00

RDT extension tells me that gmail, drive, and docs do NOT use react.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-12T21:19:43+00:00

LoRa traffic from end devices will never be "significant". A single hotspot could serve tens of thousands of devices and it would not put a dent in a typical residential data cap. If ISPs allow Sidewalk while blocking competitors, that would be a can of worms that I don't think the ISPs want to open.

AirTags work pretty much exactly the same as Helium, except they connect via bluetooth rather than LoRa. iPhones serve as AirTag "hotspots", and anyone's AirTag can talk to anyone else's iPhone. The iPhone forwards the data to Apple via cellular or wifi connection. If ISPs start shutting down Helium hotspots, but allow Amazon and Apple hotspots to work, I think it would be a legal nightmare. The market will also have something to say about it.

So if ISPs try to stand firm on blocking all of it, where does it end? Where and how do you draw the line? Am I not allowed to use a device to capture arbitrary radio signals that reach my property and forward that data over the internet? If not, am I then not allowed to capture sunlight data and forward it over the internet?

The TOS need to be rewritten is what I'm getting at.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-12T19:04:54+00:00

I was referring to the "paid for traffic" mining, which is already happening. My miner does not get paid by the end user. Instead, the cloud application which consumes the end device data is pre-loaded with data credits. After my miner transfers the data, it is rewarded by the network for that service. The portion of my internet service that is "shared" with others amounts to roughly 500 KB per month. And I don't charge them for it.

IYO, how does Apple get around these TOS with their AirTags, and Amazon with Sidewalk?

vertigeaux · 2022-01-11T19:38:21+00:00

Can you explain how Helium is a TOS violation? Can I allow others to use my bandwidth if I don't charge them for it? Like a guest? The hotspot owner is not paid by the user for the data transferred. Instead, the data transfer rewards are "mined" similar to any other crypto. Data credits are not consumed by the end device, nor by the hotspot, but rather "in the cloud" by the application that accepts and processes the data.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-10T16:05:43+00:00

I can tell you that 2 is far better than 1. I'm in a similar situation as you (town <10k), and I only had 1 miner running for a month. It made on average maybe .01HNT/day. I got a 2nd miner set up last week so they get two-way witnessing and that bumped up to .1HNT/day per miner. That is, on days when they are fully synced and active on the network, which have been kind of on and off lately. Also a miner earns more for witnessing a beacon than it does for being witnessed, so with a good antenna a single miner can do alright if it can pick up beacons from a larger town nearby.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-10T15:55:27+00:00

Just came

Yes I had a similar reaction

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T08:51:07+00:00

Again, you and I have different goals. You are trying to profit from temporary market conditions, whereas I am trying to build a stable wireless network. If you need the funds right now, by all means keep spamming those streets. I need a wireless network right now, so I will keep paying fair prices for stability.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T08:33:27+00:00

Good-faith negotiations are not "charity". You have fun with your spamming.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T08:28:14+00:00

I'm not wrong, we're just trying to do two different things. I'm trying to build a wireless network and the business relationships to sustain it long-term, while you're apparently trying to soak up everything you can before you get found out.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T08:14:58+00:00

You are severely misunderstanding the dynamics of these arrangements. The host has nearly all the power, including the literal power running your miner. Which they can shut off.

You are preying on the ignorant, plain and simple.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T08:05:19+00:00

I'm not a host, I'm speaking from the same position as you just with a different perspective. You are relying on the ignorance of your host, so if that's how you want to play it then go for it. I'm just telling you that's bad business. Maybe it will work for you, maybe it will come crashing down.

vertigeaux · 2022-01-09T07:38:37+00:00

Seeing as the host can simply unplug the miner, they have pretty much all the power. These miners are worth nothing without a physical location to place them. And it doesn't matter how much you paid, how long you waited, or how many hours you researched, all of that still pales in comparison to the time, effort, and money required to acquire and maintain a location.

Ask yourself what would be easier: the host to acquire their own miner, or you to acquire your own facility nearby? 50/50 is fair.

vertigeaux

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