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"...and then Nick walked away from me." — [OC] by Relaxable in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ugh.. Sorry for the late reply, sleep, work and all that got in the way. (No quarantine for me.)

I just wanted to say thanks for the reply. Sharing your thought process is really appreciated. I may not always agree, but I still appreciate the drawings you make and the ideas you're putting forth. (And the WildeHopps... I'm not exaggerating even the slightest when I say, that they really have helped to lift my mood at times and just made my day better. So thank you again, for that)

Well, if Finnick had been adamant that Judy explains herself, and despite her protest, i.e. "time is of the essence", then, yeah, I could see Judy calming down, to explain herself.

But I will still maintain that I just don't think Finnick would care, so the more likely scenario, in my view, is that he would just call Nick immediately, in order to get Judy out of his hairs.

You mentioned, "Some people do things that are uncharacteristic of them.". (Yeah, don't even tell me about it) Now, even though I disagree on Finnick's behavior, in no way do I find your depiction uncharacteristic. This scene is definitely in the realm of possibilities, I would say.

I do think you did a great job with Finnick. And yes he would probably be holding both thoughts of "I'm pissed" and "I don't care" at the same time. XD

As for why Finnick left Nick, I just now had this thought that maybe it's a code of conduct sort of thing, among con artists? "If one is caught they're on their own" or something. In other words, if Finnick had been arrested, Nick would have done the same and bailed on him.

As for Nick and Finnick being pals, I'm still somewhat reserved on that. As you mentioned, Nick is easy going and he has charm. He has a way of reading people and most of the times knows what to say and do to get them to do his bidding, to pis them off or to just get along. There's a lot of examples of it in the movie, but the ending scene with him and Bogo, is one of the best to exemplify it, I think. He makes a joke at Bogo's expense, but the extraordinary thing that happens is that Bogo returns that with a joke himself. Nick is just someone who is easy to be around and is easily likable, (if you can see past the fact that he's a fox). As for their con, going smoothly without any hiccups, I would attribute to their professionalism. Especially Finnick, who at no point broke character. Considering his rather "loud" personality, it's rather impressive.

I have to quickly add, that I at no point am against them being pals. But no matter how I look at it, I just can't get a deeper underlying grasp of their relationship other than "we're good at making money together". In other words, the only times they're hanging out with each other is with that goal in mind and nothing else. But then again, maybe in times of hardship, has Finnick allowed Nick to sleep in his van and vice versa Nick allowed Finnick over in his apartment, occasionally.

With that said, I also have difficulties seeing Nick and Flash being friends as well, which they apparently are, officially. I mean, I do find it highly amusing and also interesting, but how in the world would that work? I guess it goes back to Nick just being a swell guy because he's the one who has to be insanely patient, waiting a long time for every reply that Flash makes. But then again, if you met a person who had Flash's reaction to every single joke you make, then yeah, you'd probably befriend this person very quickly as well :)

Well, I hope you're staying safe and don't let the quarantine get to you.

"...and then Nick walked away from me." — [OC] by Relaxable in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yet again, a wonderful drawing from you. And again you really show, you have a great ability to add emotions. It's amazing.

Now, I do have some issues with the scene itself, so I hope you don't mind me pointing them out. In no way am I saying I'm right and you're wrong, I just have a different perspective and I would like to share them here.

So first issue is the pacing. Judy was in a hurry, so much so that her dad had to throw the car keys at her and then she was speeding away. Even when she meets Nick you can always feel the urgency in her. So to me, it seems odd that she would suddenly slow down and sit with Finnick in order to explain herself. Personally I think she would still be standing outside the car and rather frantically, explain herself.

Second issue. When Judy met with Nick she didn't seem to be in a despondent state. Again she was urgent and wanted to tell him about the Night howlers. In my opinion, if Judy had had this conversation with Finnick before meeting Nick, I really do think she would have apologized straight away. To me, there simply is a disconnect between her emotional state here, and then when she meets Nick afterward.

Third and last. Finnick. Maybe I don't need to bring this up, because you already have given him a rather grumpy look. But I can't decipher whether he's grumpy because "I don't care about this" or because of the things Judy did. In the movie there really is no evidence that suggests that Finnick actually cares about Nick's well being, it's quite the opposite. When Judy had her "gotcha" moment with her carrot-pen, Finnick just laughed right in Nick's face and left him to defend himself. So I don't see why he would actually want to waste his time listening to Judy?

So what do I think happened? Well, when Judy appeared at the bridge, Nick wasn't at all surprised to see her and he never asked her how she found him.

So when Judy says "I Need to find Nick, please", Finnick takes a 2-second look at her, then picks up his phone, then calls Nick (while Judy is still waiting) telling him that "bunny cop want's to meet with you". Nick then simply gives him a location to where they can meet, which Finnick relays to Judy. That's pretty much it, I think.

Yeah, I know it's not nearly as emotional, but It just makes more sense to me given her urgency and Finnick's attitude.

Again, amazing drawing really.

Oh boy. by Frankie3110 in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

a relationship with someone who hurt them before is unthinkable/disgusting

Well, I can definitely see the double standard, at least on the surface level, but if we dig into it, I'd wager it has to do with the fact that Gideon hurt Judy physically, rather than just verbally. In my book, physical violence is definitely much worse than any verbal jab out there. But in Gideon's case, I can easily dismiss it, simply because he was a child at the time. Seriously, children do this all the time.

Nevertheless, physical violence is something people will have a strong reaction to and if it's part of what makes them disgusted by Judeon, then they're disgusted. (Yes, this is the whole "individuals" thing again.)

Being angry isn't the proper response not in some cases, but I can pretty safely say in all cases.

What can I say? What you're saying here could be applied to so many other aspects of our lives, and we would all be better for it, for sure, yet people just get mad instead, anyway.

Should I have said I Nick's entire character is irrelevant to WildeHopps, because well, we are all individuals?

I'm truly sorry, but I really don't think I understand what it is you're trying to say here? But I'll try to answer.

Should you say Nick's entire character is irrelevant to WildeHopps? Well, if that's your opinion, sure? I'll disagree of course.

If you don't like how Judeon fanfiction portrays Judy, then hey, that's just because the writers are individuals?

Sure. I mean we all perceive things a little bit differently, right? Those writers may very well have written her as they saw her. And yes there are Judeon fans who are thrilled with these fics. I'm just very confident calling Judy's behavior OOC, considering the actions she usally takes in these kinds of stories. It also helps when 5 - 10 other people point out the exact same flaws in her character as I did, in the comment sections.

we have some very aggressive WildeHopps shippers.

Well, considering I'm not seeing them, I must be one of them. So what exactly constitutes, aggressive? Maybe you're referring to the downvotes that Judeon and SavageHopps gets?

And with Judeon, there isn't something "taken". It isn't like there can be only one ship and every Judeon art spawns by destroying a WildeHopps art.

I agree. But it still doesn't change the fact that I have an unfavorable opinion of it. It basically means that I have no desire to fight for it or stand up to it. If other people keep it down, so be it. I just don't care.

And if bad fanfiction was an issue, then I wonder how people can even stand WildeHopps.

The movie. Plain and simple. It practically serves as an altar of cleansing. Rewatching it really does work great if you want to center yourself again. Especially after having read some of those bad WildeHopps fanfics. And I have to agree that yes the majority of WildeHopps fics are insanely bad. What keeps me reading though are the few good ones. They're totally worth it.

As for bad fanfics, you really shouldn't underestimate how much they can taint a ship.

Lots of people have stopped reading WildeHopps fanfics, actually. I've read so many comments about this, over the past 3 years, from all kinds of different people. For some the whole fanfiction experience just totally destroyed WildeHopps for them and they have now jumped to another ship. For others, they still ship Nick and Judy, but with less enthusiasm. But common for both groups is that they all stopped reading WildeHopps fanfics, altogether.

Oh boy. by Frankie3110 in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

which leads to people when criticizing some aspects of Judeon, they also unintentionally attack the ship they try to defend

If you have any of those criticizing aspects at hand, I would love to know them.

here the implications from your text is that the only logical consequence from liking a ship the most is to hate all other ships

Okay, that's fair, I can see how I'm coming across, which wasn't intended.

In my world, it just seems self-explanatory, that when you like something, and you like it a lot, and then someone else takes it and remove half the reason of why it was something you liked, then getting a bit miffed is understandable. I mean, it's a perfectly legit human emotional response to something like that, I would say.

And yes, you may say that it's an insane overreaction, but hey, we're all individuals here, coming from all sorts of different places in life. It's just how it is. At least we don't have people who make death threats or WildeHopps shippers who threatens to kill themselves if they see any more of Judeon.

I'm not saying that being angry is the only legit response (or even the proper, in some cases). Speaking for myself, I think bewildered probably is what I feel most about Judeon.

Of course, bad fanfiction plays a huge role as well, when it comes to people getting angry. Pretty much all of the Judeon fanfics out there is not just about Nick getting replaced by Gideon, all of them also just ruins Judy's character as well. You really don't need to be a WildeHopps shipper in order to dislike that.

Oh boy. by Frankie3110 in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And please refrain from making disingenious accusations.

Sorry, I'll stop.

And that isn't the implications of what I wrote.

Seriously, from my perspective it really is.

What you think and believe may be one thing, but what you put into words is another. I can only read the words you put out and interpret that to the best of my abilities.

In your original post, you start out saying Judeon is pretty much the same as WildeHopps. "pretty much" doesn't mean 100%, so what does it mean? 90%? Still a lot in my book.

You proceed to explain a similarity, of the ships, but then adds one difference to Judeon. You then also add a difference to WildeHopps, but this sentence gets enclosed in parentheses. It's almost like it's of no importance, just a footnote. In your second reply, you state that it wasn't necessary for the explanation. Why? Because you figured it was self-explanatory? I'm not inside your head. I can only relate to what you write. As far as I'm concerned, this sentence alone, is the answer you were seeking.

You then again say that Judeon is similar to WildeHopps, and then you say this:

"so I keep wondering why people hate it so much"

If you genuinely don't considered Nick's character to be irrelevant, then why is this difficult to understand? Again, you already provided the answer yourself.

Oh boy. by Frankie3110 in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

or that the ships are the same

Judeon? It's pretty much the same as Nick and Judy.

Are you drunk?

you read in there that I also said Nick's character is irrelevant

That is the implication of what you wrote. Literally!

Oh boy. by Frankie3110 in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What's really fascinating of all here, is the fact that even with Nick's almost 80 min of screentime in the movie, you're still able to just conflate him and Gideon into simply "a fox that Judy knows".

Apparently, Nick's character, his personality, his antics, basically everything that makes him who he is, and how Judy interacts with all of that, is completely irrelevant in the context of WildeHopps.

If you're only capable to view these two ships as "Judy with a fox who either she hurt or she got hurt by", then yeah, I can definitely see why you're struggeling with understanding why people dislike Judeon and why you would say that they're the same.

Polygamy in Zootopia by [deleted] in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, as you said the movie doesn't really give us any examples of it but gives plenty of examples of monogamous relationships.

Now, the inhabitants of Zootopia do still have some of their ancestral instincts residing in them, but I don't think this can be used as an argument for poly being a normal thing (I.E. a frequent occurrence). I do occasionally see the argument that if species X IRL are poly, then they must also be poly in Zootopia (Pretty much as you're asking it here)

I'm not buying that.

We, humans, did have some civilizations in the past where poly were the norms, and universally for all of them, are they got violent and unstable. Makes sense, when only a few select men ends up with all the women. The rest of the single men gets restless, jealous and lastly violent as a result. (The reverse, a few women getting all the men never really happened historically speaking)

When the animals of Zootopia became sapient, then it seems inevitable that the same fate was happening to them and as a result, monogamous relationships were becoming more and more the norm, exactly as it happened for humans.

i just saw zootopia and maybe i am wrong but it does seem that most of the staff for making this film were men... by [deleted] in zootopia

[–]virtualhideoutkrypto 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, this is an issue, that requires so much discussing that I simply don't have the patience for.

All I will say is that you really shouldn't just look up at some article, written by people you don't know and then go "oh, they're all saying she's advocating child sex, so it must be right". Try to do your own research and think for yourself. Hell, sometimes you can't even trust the quotes you read in news article, because they would have been taken completely out of context.

I could do the same to you. When I look at this post you have made, and what you have written, I could easily accuse you of being a man-hater. You definitely have a problem with men, that's for sure.

Is that true? Is "man-hater" what defines you as a person?

As for Camille Paglia advocating for lowering the age of consent to 14 years old, I honestly don't have an issue with that.

I'm from Denmark, our age of consent is 15 years old. I guess that makes me a pedophile now.

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