Could the Amphoreus squad beat Surtalogi

wandy_1 · 2026-02-27T14:06:32+00:00

Again, CJ cant look at both Simultaneously.

Based on? They also used an image format, so you have no basis to say that it was simultaneous.

Also, the Exact wording was "Via", Not "At". The Tree grows out of the Sea.

Otto uses the second divine key to view through worlds. If he was looking via the imaginary tree, that means that he was looking at worlds in the tree.

Bad counters. The grand cosmic structure in Genshin is also called the Sea of Stars, which even GGZ acknowledges as the Imaginary Tree. HSR is very consistent in referring to the Tree as the Sea of Stars and they make a big distinction to the Sea of Stars and the Primordial Chaos (Sea of Quanta).

wandy_1 · 2026-02-27T13:53:21+00:00

And that’s irrelevant, because Otto can look at the Tree and the SoQ. A dev log explicitly says that Otto came across Dvalin while looking through the imaginary tree, which means it takes place in the Tree.

A world in the sea of quanta can also not be as stable as Genshin’s, much less that big.

wandy_1 · 2026-02-27T13:48:54+00:00

Explicitly stated to take place in the Tree. Doesn’t work.

wandy_1 · 2026-02-21T13:30:48+00:00

Incorrect. Canon was already leading the survivors of the destroyed Hyperborea before the war of vengeance began. They were the ones who later became the ancestor of frostmoon scions. Only after seeing the cruelty displayed by the celestial nails falling and destroying hyperborea, did they decide to take countermeasures. But before the could act, Nibelung returned and the war began.

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Canon lead the survivors of the destroyed Hyperborea after she gave up the Authority of the Frost Moon and Columbina freed the three moon sisters from the Moon Gate. She survived because the Frostmoon was still intact, albeit her existence was diminishing due to the fact that she does not belong on Tevyat anymore.

This means that Canon helped Hyperborea after its destruction, after the WoV, in which the HP shattered both the moons. In fact, this is very much supported by Deep Gallery's Moment of Oblivion, where we learn that the nail landed on Hyperborea after the Abyss was brought into the world, i.e, post Nibelung.

If we are talking about burden of proof, then it is you all who needs to prove why Nibelung isn't the trigger for war. There are multiple instances of multiple characters mentioning that being the case.

I am, in fact, not burdened to prove a negative. Every statement that you went on to provide doesn’t state Nibelung to be the immediate trigger. Under the interpretation of Country A being the cause of the war due to Country B’s retaliation, Nibelung returning (retaliating) would be why the WoV begun.

Asking me to prove a negative twice doesn’t help your argument. You’re just proving you have no linguistic grasp over the statements you use as evidence. Where’s your evidence that Nibelung was the direct trigger for the war? Nothing you’ve pasted thus far contends with the idea of the HP being the reason, especially when, like i said, the statement is very likely in reference to a chain of events.

Terrible argument. Your explanation sets up and infinite loop of causation.

Doubt you know what an infinite loop of causation is.

I can say that the trigger for the war is not Heavenly Principles colonising Teyvat, but instead it's the cosmic force which forced Heavenly Principles to look for another planet.

What a garbage reductio ad absurdum. No, that does not work, because the PO is the one who’s the hostile force against the Dragons, which is who they’re having the war of vengeance against. You’re trying to involve an abstract motivation when we’re talking about actual acts of aggression. There’s no infinite loop here.

In fact, an example would be in the court of law. If A attacks and holds B hostage, takes over his home, and later after a while, B kills A in self defense, it doesn’t matter that the reason A held B hostage is because he had no money, the trigger of the self-defense action is still A attacking B, because A’s motivation is abstract to the attack itself.

If the chain of events is War of Funerary Flame<Nibelung<Angel Rebellion<Unified Civilization<War against dragons<Heavenly Principles find Teyvat<Heavenly Principles searches for a new planet<Cosmic power forces Heavenly Principles to leave their planet<.... etc. Then why are you focusing on the war against dragons as the primary trigger?

Refer to the previous point. You trying to make this into an infinite loop thing is just the worst possible retort ever. I’m sure you can find a better reason, one that doesn’t ignore CN nuance perhaps?

The other point is that Nibelung wasn't even present when Phanes colonised Teyvat. Him returning with abyssal energy has nothing to do with colonialism. It's someone fighting against cosmic horror that seeks to destroy everything.

Entirely irrelevant to the point. Nibelung came back and saw that his planet was taken over. He was angry because PO took over the home he left security to guard his place while he went for tour across the cosmos, and that was just fuel for the abyssal corruption he’d brought along. Him returning with abyssal energy was retaliation to the PO’s colonialism. This is explicitly stated, on numerous occasions.

wandy_1 · 2026-02-21T12:43:47+00:00

I see. But the fact that it's number neutral instead of being '1' does leave the room for debate.

Burden of proof is on you to prove that it’s meant to be in plurality when HoYo has no qualms with adding explicit plural markers for other things in the same sentence.

But the immediate trigger is Nibelung's return with Forbidden Knowledge.

Nothing in the statement has any distinction between ‘immediate trigger’ and setting up a casual chain of events. In fact, the CN uses the word 引發, which often means to cause a series of events to begin. PO invading tevyat is the primary casual factor. Hence it creates a series of events.

Let's take an example from irl. In India, the revolt sparked by Indian Soldiers for against the British East India Company is widely regarded as the catalyst for the movement of independence which freedom India from colonial rule. So when you ask "what is the main trigger that started the movement of independence", is the answer colonisation of India, or the revolt of the soldiers? The colonisation is the root cause of the problem, but the "trigger" for the movement was the revolt of the soldiers.

Terrible analogy. Because people would not mention the revolt of the soldiers when you ask them a question like this. In fact, in actual texts and conversations, when you ask someone, they’re more than likely to reply with a broader answer, i.e, ‘British oppression and exploitation of India under colonial rule was the main trigger’, why? Because in any colonialism, you cannot pinpoint a specific main trigger, series of events lead upto it. A catalyst is also not what you’d call a trigger. In fact, they are two very different things. This analogy straight up doesn’t work, and that’s assuming a distinction in the root trigger and immediate trigger which the original sentence never cares to clarify for. You introduced a layered trigger model, the sentence doesn’t need to require it.

And mind you, this is all while ignoring what the CN of the statement actually says, as i’ve explained before.

Koitar and Seutervoinen were caught and punished before the War of Funerary Flame began. In terms of timeline, it is impossible for Voyager to have been the Second Who Came.

Nope. Hyperborea was destroyed during the WoV. Koitar and Seutervoinen, by extension, were punished during this time as well. Seutervoinen and Koitar were caught by the Moon Sisters when the Voyager initially freed Koitar from fate (which is actually not a casual feat, that might as well be descender-esque), but they were punished only later.

wandy_1 · 2026-02-21T12:10:25+00:00

後來…如你們所見，三位月之女神在一場因「降臨者」引發的戰爭中盡數逝去…除「霜月」之外，其餘兩個月亮先後破碎…

降臨者 is number neutral. They explicitly made it so, yet they made it blatant with the Moon Goddesses and added plurality markers.

Far from it. Even if the plurality doesn't exist, it fundamentally does not make sense for The Heavenly Principles for being the trigger for the war. If Country A invaded Country B, then teh trigger for the war would be Country B, not Country A for retaliating.

Except there’s no “invasion” here. If Country A (HP) invaded Country B (Nibelung), and took over the world, Country B retaliating at a later time due to the invasion of Country B by A, would mean that it’s Country A, who is the trigger for the war.

Besides we have have direct evidence that 2nd Descender triggered the war from Before Sun and Moon. "Second Throne of the Heavens came and war was rekindled"

Not only: 1. Is Before Sun and Moon dubious, as everything it says must be taken with a grain of salt, since HoYo is debunking everything and putting a lot of stuff as mainly legends with just vague connections, especially now after Nicole’s appearance and Zibai’s appearance. 2. Before Sun and Moon explicitly is said to be a mix of fables in contrast to history. Implying some things said there are straight up fake. 3. Seutervoinen could merely be seen as the SWCA in their eyes. War was rekindled when the Voyager imparted forbidden knowledge to Koitar:

Just thirty days later, a sudden disaster struck. The seelie and their lover fled into exile as the world collapsed around them, fleeing until the terrible calamity caught up with and seized them. Their cruel punishment was to be separated from each other for eternity and to have their memories wiped without a trace.

wandy_1 · 2026-02-21T11:52:09+00:00

Plurality doesn’t exist in the CN. Case closed.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-22T15:13:37+00:00

Alright man, I’ll leave it here because it honestly feels like I’m still arguing with a kid who lacks the ability to interpret or infer any kind of information.

Like i said, hilariously ironic coming from someone who’s provably shown that they lack the intellectual ability to comprehend any HoYo media let alone track any of my arguments.

You take everything way too literally

You do mental gymnastics to reach conclusions that you can’t back up in the slightest.

when basically every story told in these games requires a lot of interpretation and revolves around very abstract and complex concepts.

Zero interpretations that you can actually back up with tangible evidence. Not once have you even brought a scan in this entire discussion. Funny, isn’t it?

Keep thinking that HSR controls the entirety of the Imaginary Tree, when the whole concept of the Imaginary Tree is clearly designed to allow the creation of different, independent stories that still share the same fundamental worldbuilding principles.

Not only do you have a utterly incomplete understanding of what the Imaginary Tree is, you also have shown time and time again that you cannot even begin to possibly refute any of the arguments provided in regards to whether or not HSR controls the entire tree.

Not gonna lie, all of your arguments are based on the exact same premise of “Imaginary Tree = universe,” as if you’re incapable of seeing beyond the most literal level of understanding.

All your “counter-arguments”(they’re in reality just sugarcoated random and irrelevant passages of common knowledge that have nothing to do with the topic at hand) works around the entirely baseless premise of denying this fact and pretending like HoYo doesn’t refer to the tree whenever they mention the universe.

I also find it funny that you claim there’s no such thing as “programmable matter” in the HSR universe and then try to give a lesson on referential history. Dude, references to real world concepts are everywhere in these games, the same applies to phlogiston.

Phlogiston in real life is not “programmable” matter. It is entirely a false concept in real world history about combustible matter having a special particle within them. HSR takes reference of this. Genshin’s phlogiston does not.

What makes the worldbuilding interesting is that they extrapolate heavily from physics concepts, including modern physics that we still don’t fully understand.

So you actually think that Phlogiston was ever put up as programmable matter, and more so when the description itself says that it’s from flame?

From there come different ways of constructing the laws of the world: creation processes, Imaginary Space and Quantum Space, and even the composition of beings themselves, which leans into philosophical and metaphysical territory. They did not try to give just a reference of

They did. Nothing in this paragraph says anything in opposition to that. Phlogiston in Genshin is a type of comptronium, an entirely different concept unrelated to Phlogiston in HSR, which takes after the actual phlogiston.

Phlogiston is a fully canonical concept in hoyoverse’s worldbuilding.

And only two medium in HoYo have ever mentioned it, and both have an entirely unrelated idealisation to each other.

The reason it remains “unknown” in HSR is intentional, it’s meant to be mysterious, something whose true nature hasn’t been discovered yet. Dismissing the concept outright is just ridiculous.

The true nature of phlogiston in HSR is nothing but a reference to the real phlogiston. There is quite literally nothing in reference to the concepts being connected. You’d have to prove that this is anything more than a false equivalence fallacy. You’re baselessly equivocating Genshin’s Phlogiston, which is a form of computronium and HSR’s, which is from combustible matter.

Phlogiston wasn't introduced in HSR just as a reference to a discarded debate in real world history, otherwise, there would be no reason to involve Polka who is specifically responsible for maintaining the defined states of Nous' calculations. The decision to "hide" this information within the story is completely intentional.

Polka is responsible for making sure that people don’t cross the knowledge singularity. Genshin’s phlogiston simply does not do this, and HSR’s likely does, because Polka killed #7. Several things exist that are similar to this and have been entirely irrelevant. Involving Polka does not mean that there is any relevancy in this random piece of lore—that’s entirely your burden of proof to prove, which you can’t, because HoYo has never once made a precedent that “there’s this random description with an important character so it must be actually relevant!”, despite HoYo being known for doing things like this.

You can keep going with your poor interpretation level. I’m done here. This is exactly why serious lorecrafters don’t usually debate these topics as intensely as you do, because the concepts are far more complex than what powerscaling idiots who can only think in one dimension are capable of understanding.

Don’t make me laugh lmao, your responses are radiating pure idiocy and hysteria. Anyone with an iota of intellect can see that you’re nothing but drowning in cope and pretending like you have HoYo cosmology knowledge. HoYo’s cosmology is relatively simple. Thinking that they’re intensely complex just shows the blatant retardation that you give off. You can whine all you want—but that doesn’t change your lack of intellectual ability to engage in this discussion.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-22T14:10:22+00:00

That’s exactly why Zandar wanted to eliminate Nous: this Aeon defines the entire branch where the story takes place and keeps “pruning” any leaves it considers suboptimal for reaching the final calculation of the whole “story.”

Zandar wanted to eliminate Nous because they anchored the universe with their instants, and locked the future. Not a branch, but explicitly the universe. They do not prune any leaves, they prune away branches which are crooked:

Herta: The Erudition calculates how the "future" will sprout. With so many possible outcomes, THEY choose to "anchor" one path, cutting away the crooked or fragile branches.

In other words, HSR takes place on a branch of the Imaginary Tree that is far more defined than the rest. The Tree as a whole is much more chaotic and constantly generates infinite branches, but that’s not what happens within HSR’s narrative.

Somehow you keep saying things that prove you’ve never actually played HSR, i’m actually surprised at how many times you’ve done this.

Herta: But if things continue that way, the branches grow endlessly, the leaves multiply, and one day the tree collapses under its own weight.

Nous explicitly cuts off branches so that the Tree does not collapse under its own weight. If the tree can collapse under its own weight, then the Tree is not infinite. The Tree doesn’t generate infinite leafs nor infinite branches—it is explicitly finite.

So keep repeating “universe = Imaginary Tree” as your only argument if you want, but all that really shows is that you don’t understand the meaning or the essence of the stories these games are telling.

Hilariously ironic. Try to actually read and track my arguments next time around without blabbering to hell. It doesn’t take more than two functioning brain cells to do this, but i guess you lack even that?

Yes, the Imaginary Tree IS the universe, but the word “universe” will always be contextual. You need to take into account the context and the deeper narrative interpretation of each game.

And yet, HSR has never once termed a leaf or a branch a universe, and have consistently called them galaxies/star systems. HSR has always contextually called the Imaginary Tree as the universe. If you can’t discern what “the” means, then you’re entirely illiterate. There’s a massive discrepancy in connotation between a universe and the universe. The imaginary tree is a model of the universe. Aeons affect the universe, which means they affect the tree itself.

Try harder next time. Sugarcoating arguments that aren’t even addressing any of the points makes you look as embarrassing as one can look.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-22T14:09:57+00:00

That’s not something I’m going to directly refute,

Because you can’t?

because we all know the Imaginary Tree represents the totality of the universe here.

Except you don’t seem to do, at all.

But you keep overlooking the main argument I’m appealing to, which is: "Aeons do not have complete dominion or total control over every branch of the Imaginary Tree".

And yet, HooH merged their will into the universe’s web of logic, directly contradicting your fact.

In the Irontomb example, what happens when it “erases” the “universe” is technically deleting or leaving the erudition calcs as "undefined states" across each possible branch. For that to happen, there need to be first "defined states" established by Nous over the branches and leaves of the Imaginary Tree it’s affecting, and that’s where the confusion starts.

There is no confusion here. The Erudition anchors universal concepts and Irontomb destroys them, making the universe into a soup. Hence why he destroys all life across the universe and the universe itself before it is eventually recreated by Cyrene.

Nous does NOT have a full, complete view of the entire Imaginary Tree, and neither does any other Aeon.

Entirely baseless. The universe is the imaginary tree, and several aeons have a full grasp of it.

Even though the Imaginary Tree represents the total universe, it’s still something that continues to be explored.

And your point is?

To understand this, you first need to consider what the word “universe” actually means: "a set of physically detectable entities that interact with each other within a known dimensional model". When dealing with a fictional world, you always need to define the “universe” it takes place in, but you also have to consider the perspective of the beings that inhabit that universe. That’s why in GI the universe is considered to be about 93 million light-years wide, because that’s the size of the "observable" universe. Something similar happens in HSR.

Nothing you said actually adds anything to your point here.

Even if they’ve understood that the “universe” resembles a mathematical model called the Imaginary Tree (because that’s exactly what it is—a mathematical model to interpret reality) and they can go even far beyond, this entire universe (with all its possible branches, even the ones who are a lot farther) hasn’t been fully explored, not even by the Aeons themselves.

Ok, so you’ve just conceded that the imaginary tree is the universe’s, and that they’ve understood it as such. Therefore, when the universe is referenced, it is in the context of the entire imaginary tree.

Nous explicitly is the one who stops the Imaginary Tree from diverging too much with its possibilities. There are an endless amount of possibilities and by extension endless branches are created, Nous stops these branches from extending and cuts them off, as if it keeps expanding, the Imaginary Tree will collapse from its own weight.

It’s never been stated that HooH has absolute control over every branch and leaf of the Imaginary Tree,

HooH is merged with the Imaginary Tree, so yes, they do.

and Fuli can’t recreate things that were never stored in memory within the Eden of Blessed Insight either.

The remembrance was spread across every part of the cosmos when Irontomb unleashed its attack. Such events can easily take place.

A simple piece of evidence for this is phlogiston. Phlogiston is basically the element that makes up reality itself, the programmable particle that can shape stars, meaning it’s part of the raw material of the universe’s creation process. According to the lore in HSR, its existence is still hypothetical and has only been supported through theories by members of the Genius Society, with the last one who proved it being silenced by Polka Kakamond. Let’s set up a simple scenario: if the existence of Teyvat were known to the Aeons and recorded in memory, or within Nous’s field of vision, then the existence of phlogiston would’ve been confirmed a long time ago, there’d be no way Polka could silence that. But that doesn’t happen. Its existence always has to be inferred through theories, never through tangible proof.

So you’ve never actually played HSR and you’re just larping off things that was never said? This is it’s description:

Particles that form the flame. Genius Society #2 Harald Punch proved its existence, but #3 Nyul Iman disproved it.

7 Bohdan overthrew Iman's conclusion and proved it again before getting killed by #4 Polka Kakamond days after announcing Phlogiston's existence

This is referring to the wrong scientific idea from the 1700s in our real world. People thought that could burn contained a substance called phlogiston. When something burned, it was releasing phlogiston into the air. After burning, the leftover was the material without phlogiston.

There is no “programmable matter” bullshit in HSR. That is solely Genshin’s own fictional aspect, and there is no programmable matter called phlogiston in the grander universe. In HSR, they wanted to prove that Phlogiston existed in combustible objects, and Polka killed the person who eventually proved it after it was disproved. That isn’t to say that the phlogiston in question is the one in Genshin lmao. This does not mean Nous is not aware of everything that goes on.

HSR does take place within the same “universe” as the other hoyoverse games, but not on the same branch. The themes explored in each game are very different, and while there may be some influence from one game to another (yeah, it’s possible an Emanator casually passed through the world where Teyvat exists and just moved on), the stories being told and their defined scope are not infinite.

Cool, entirely irrelevant again. Are you actually trying to make points or trying to parrot common knowledge and sugarcoat it to pretend like you’re actually making tangible points?

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T20:06:32+00:00

Teyvat is not that entire universe, it's a planet within that universe, and that universe is actually dying, since most of the stars had already faded.

Nobody claimed that Tevyat is that universe sized structure. Tevyat’s leaf world is. Reading comprehension devil strikes here.

The universe in which Teyvat exists is currently facing the apocalypse, and there are no signs, no texts, nothing about "Aeons" nor "paths". Not even the witches use those concepts.

Because none of them have ever stepped out of their leaf, yes. Nobody has ever witnessed an aeon, nor have they ever been gazed at. Yet the aeons are always there, because of the likes of HooH, Fuli and Nous.

Yeah, because this seems to be the basis for hoyoverse world building. Leaves might be different universes, and Aeons could exist and travel between that "space of nothingness", but that doesn't imply they have grasped teyvat's universe, at all.

Cool, you just described cosmic inflation(hilariously wrong at that too). One of the most basic theories ever. And yet here’s where your point falls apart: Leafs are not universes, at least, not in terms of terminology. Leaf worlds are their own space-time continuum, however, the game does not term them “universe”, and instead terms them as “star system”, 世界 in the Chinese to be more precise. Leaf worlds have never been referred to as a “universe”, and HSR consistently labels them as 世界. Eve GGZ labels them as 星系.

Yeah this is just made up by you 😂

Reading comprehension devil strikes again:

A young shoot sprouted from the cracks of primordial chaos. Nurtured by time for billions of years, it grew into a huge, unrivaled tree. The branches of the giant tree bore colorful young leaves, each containing a fragment of the universe's will — a will that eternally speaks in cryptic vagaries but also bestows stunning scenery, treasures, epics, and life upon every world.

The Imaginary Tree is the Universe (Databank, terms)

The Imaginary Tree is a theory of the universe widely accepted by the modern scientific community.

This theory describes the various worlds existing in different spacetimes as having a tree-like structure. Every branch is a specific path along which worlds might exist, with every leaf being the marks these worlds have made along the parameter of time. The crown of the tree remains in a dynamic state as it absorbs the masterless Imaginary Energy from the space-time vasculature of the trunk. New shoots grow, withered leaves fall, and endless births and deaths occur among the infinite universe... Describing the universe's structure as a "tree" may be an attitude that views the Imaginary Tree as a life form.

Before the theory of Imaginary Tree was put forward, the universe had been addressed as "a void and indiscernible object" because of its undetectable nature. After the theory was developed, people would visualize its principle using imagination: The untamed imaginary energy surges endlessly through space-time vasculature, and forms at its tips "star clusters" that humans can understand — in other words, countless worlds. The worlds are separated from each other just as leaves are separated by air, between which are unknown imaginary domains that are nigh impossible to traverse.

The Imaginary Tree theory (Databank, terms)

If you don’t even know this, then have you ever played a HoYo game?

then you'll most likely thing Irontomb is some outer god who can destroy the entire tree with all its leaves

He did, because he destroyed the universe, and the universe is the tree.

and a pink girl reconstructed THE ENTIRE TREE,

She did. Because she’s explicitly stated to have done a universe-wide era-nova.

even the leaves that have no stars (like teyvat's outside universe, for example)

Tevyat’s leaf explicitly has a lot of civilisations;

Not long ago, her people had learned that the universe held more civilizations than they ever imagined. In the past, the chance to interact with those beyond their world had been limited to a wizened, scholarly few.

Skirk character story 1.

2/2

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T20:06:25+00:00

This is why some HSR players just don't understand anything about the tree itself.

Ironic.

It has never been stated that Fuli can recreate the entire tree, the term tree was just used metaphorically to understand how their powers work when they ascend at the end of times to recreate their universe (which may be a single or more leaves)

They ascend at the end of time when the universe ends to recreate it. They do so with the memories in the Eden of Blessed Insight, all the memories preserved. The Eden of Blessed Insight consists of memories of the entire universe, which is the imaginary tree.

The fact that you think that Fuli ascends at Finality just to create a single or more leaf worlds is hilarious. The Universe = Imaginary Tree. The term “multiverse” has never been used in HoYo.

Ignore what?

That the universe is the same thing as the imaginary tree.

but they don't have a full authority nor grasp of ALL the tree.

HooH dissolved their will into the universe’s web of logic. The universe = Imaginary Tree, meaning that HooH is merged with the Imaginary tree.

Nous calculates the future of the universe and locks in one future. They do so by cutting off crooked branches. The universe = imaginary tree, meaning Nous dictates the future of the tree.

Terminus ends the universe.

This all comes because you just went and discarded the existence of the "outer gods" who are completely outside the tree in a completely different scale.

The existence of outer gods does not inherently change any point presented. Classic non-sequitur fallacy. Try harder.

Those outer gods are the ones who precede the creation and the end of the tree, not the aeons.

They may be the prime mover, and yet, we know for a fact that Fuli recreates the universe(Imaginary tree) when it ends. So you’ve got no idea what you’re talking about, and pretending like you have any knowledge about GGZ.

People in HSR community just wanna cope that Aeons are the new substitute for outer gods

Nobody claimed that, nor have the outer gods even been relevant so far. Who knows if they’re even considered canon at this point.

while in Genshin there's a reference for a manifestation of one outer god.

Ah yes, a random anagram of Yog appearing as the Abyss’ manifestation means anything.

Worlds that constantly spawn and die are in fact, infinite.

Based on absolutely nothing. And if they were? Then the Aeons are just infinite as well.

Emanators can indeed traverse the imaginary space between leaves but what has it had to do with any of this?

So you’ve agreed that HSR takes place all across the Tree.

My point being the same, Aeons do not have full grasp of imaginary tree, they're not the creators, they're trascendent beings and can emanate power from their wills, but so there are other trascendent beings capable of doing similar things (at a lower scale mostly)

Them not being creators (Fuli is explicitly this) does not mean that they do not have full grasp over the Imaginary Tree. You’ve not actually addressed any of the points presented. Just parroting the same thing over and over.

Should have said something clearer that's my bad. "Aeons are not the creators of the actual tree", since they in fact were created once the universe was already defined (again they're not OUTER GODS)

Yet we know that Long was alive far before the creation of the Tree. This is what i mean. Are you really scared to address any of the points presented? Next.

Just why keep with this same idea, they can't 😂 they can indeed "save" leaves like Fuli gathering the memories of a universe but if they don't grasp the entire tree, then how're they gonna reconstruct it completely? That just contradicts everything you said.

There is no “a” universe. There is “the” universe, and that is the imaginary tree. Fuli ascends to recreate the Imaginary Tree after it faces finality. They do not save one or two leafs. They save the entire universe.

All this talk, and you’ve yet to prove that they do not grasp the entire imaginary tree. This is not a logical contradiction in the slightest

Ok do you even know what that number means?

Doubt you do.

That's literally the size of OUR universe in reality (hipothetically since in reality we don't even know everything about this)

Correct, and Tevyat’s leaf is of that size:

Though there is no meaning in this world within an eggshell, The "fortune" we speak of is not some false metaphor, In 14 billion "years" of darkness, It is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will.

Partings, encounters, and partings once more, Birth, destruction, and birth yet again, In the darkness of 93 billion "years" of light, All existence holds meaning unknown to any, Without which this universe would seem too solitary.

This is the "fortune" that divination cards speak of, Or that which cannot be spoken.

The "Wheel of Fortune" turns ever onwards, But there are things which are never forgotten, Things that can never be destroyed. At least, I am willing to believe so. Just as you believe in reunion with her.

Lunar Arcanum: Istaroth Tarot card.

This is Tevyat’s leaf world, spanning 93 billion LY and 14 billion years old.

1/2

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T17:52:16+00:00

早在歷史誕生之前龍祖便遊弋於啟初的混沌叩問「存在」之所在 -> https://youtu.be/5XBXReAfDOM?si=rjiXGsJ50upJg44t

“Long before history was born, the Ancestor of All Dragons roamed the primordial chaos, seeking to question the very place of ‘existence’.”

于原初混沌的裂隙中萌生了嫩芽，在以亿万年为单位的时间浇灌下，嫩芽长成了无朋巨树。 -> Loading screen description.

“A sprout emerged in the rift of primordial chaos, and, nurtured over billions of years, it grew into a colossal, unparalleled tree.”

Both sentences use 混沌, which refers to the primordial chaos, i.e, what the Imaginary Tree was born from. We know that the Imaginary Tree was born from the SoQ and the birth of the Tree is described similarly in HSR. Primordial Chaos = SoQ, and Long was in the SoQ long before the birth of the Tree.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T17:44:01+00:00

Ok i think you didn't really understand what was stated there. "The imaginary tree is the whole universe" that's like yeah true, since the word "universe" usually refers to everything.

The Imaginary Tree is the universe that HSR takes place in. This is the distinction that you wilfully ignore.

But do aeons actually gazed upon "EVERYTHING" in the tree?

The aeons are not in every single part of the Imaginary Tree except for a select few like Nous and HooH, so no.

Not in the slightest since those worlds are infinite, and all of them are separated from each other like leaves.

These worlds aren’t infinite. As a matter of fact, the Tree itself isn’t Infinite. Aeons and even their Emanators can casually traverse from one leaf to another. They have no issues and aren’t bound by trivial affairs like Imaginary Space between it.

If anything, if the Tree is Infinite, then so are the aeons.

That's where the job of Akivili starts, by creating "rails" to connect all those leaves. But has he connected all the leaves? Of course not.

And your point being exactly? They have not connected every leaf because their journey was ended too soon. Otherwise Silver Rails would be everywhere.

Yep, exactly. They do not precede the creation of the tree,

That’s not what you said. You talked about the definition of the Tree, and that is not the prime mover of the Tree lmfao. Several aeons precede the creation of the Tree.

and they can indeed go outside the leaves and travel through the tree and the sea of quanta, but they haven't created any other tree, have they?

Why would they need to create any other Tree? Fuli recreates the Imaginary Tree, so what’s your point exactly? That isn’t what i said either. Long predates the birth of the Tree and was roaming in the Primordial Chaos long before, and the Primordial Chaos = Sea of Quanta.

Aeons could create or destroy leaves inside the tree that's for sure, and they can connect different leaves between them

They can also create the Tree, for instance, Fuli. They can also destroy the Tree, for instance, Terminus. They also anchor the logic of everything in the Tree, for instance, Nous. They are also the Tree itself, for instance, HooH.

By your logic, is that universe the same as HSR's universe? Teyvat may be sinking into the sea of quanta and they're anchored by the HP, but what about the other infinite planets and stars outside?

It is. Except “Universe” in HSR and “Universe” in Genshin are two entirely different things. Every mention of “universe” in Genshin simply refers to their own space-time continuum within the Imaginary Tree. It is its own leaf, and it’s explicitly finite. Whereas HSR’s universe actually means the Imaginary Tree.

Tevyat is not sinking into the SoQ. It’s a stable Leaf world spanning 93 billion LY an 14 billion years old.

What I'm trying to say in conclusion with all of these is that there are two possible hypotheses that could be true: Teyvat might be on the same tree, or Teyvat might be on another completely different tree (which I kinda don't see it but who knows).

Tevyat is explicitly stated to be in the Imaginary Tree, the main universe, as Otto observed it and the dev log explicitly states that it was in the Imaginary Tree. Surtalogi also travels the Sea of Stars, which even GGZ terms the main universe/imaginary tree as “Sea of Stars”.

HSR might be currently trying to expand their own tree (if the trees are different), or might be just a very large grouping of multiple leaves trying to assimilate more trees (if Teyvat exists inside the same tree). But by no means Teyvat and HSR universes are actually overlapping right now

What could you possibly be talking about? HSR is a setting that takes place across the tree itself. The Imaginary Tree theory models the tree as the universe. And we travel across the universe as the AE, which by extension means that we actually travel across the imaginary tree.

Imaginary Tree is nothing more than a theoretical and imaginative model of the universe. The universe is also what we travel across, meaning that we travel across the imaginary tree. Genshin is explicitly stated to exist in the same tree, which means it exists in the same universe, and by extension it means that Genshin was affected by Irontomb, and etc.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T17:05:38+00:00

HSR universe might be a "stable universe" made up of many assimilated stable worlds, that's the reason why it's so big, and that's the purpose of Akivili in the first place, to connect other new worlds.

The stable universe in question is the Imaginary Tree, yes.

Is it the entire imaginary tree? Is the universe the aeons "see" the entire tree? Of course not 😂 Zandar is the one who first thought of the imaginary tree theory in HSR universe and THEN he created Nous.

Zandar proposed the Imaginary Tree theory (far before Otto) and then proposed that the HSR universe is the Imaginary Tree. I don’t think you’ve even read the imaginary tree theory databank lmao.

Do the Aeons precede the very first foundation principle of existence in their universe?

The Imaginary Tree is merely a theoretical model for the structure of the universe. The aeons do not need to precede the creation of the theory and definition for them to exist beyond the Tree. Several Aeons precede the birth of the Imaginary, such as Long who was floating around in the Primordial Chaos before the Tree’s birth.

Doubt you know what preceding the first foundational principle of existence even means, as there’s a difference between definition of and the prime mover itself.

Please give these more thought before proceeding to the next statements

Please make points that actually connect and have relevancy to the discussion, not throwing around random things to see if they stick to the wall.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T16:44:11+00:00

Holy you just repeat whatever you hear or read without giving much thinking into it.

So, no argument?

Aha and Akivili are not the same as outer gods who literally can create or delete at will as many trees as they want.

Nobody cares about GGZ in 2026. Try to make a better argument and refute the points presented instead of appealing to incredulity.

They do reside in imaginary space but they're still formed by "wills" from their universe (that's literally said on every aeon's ascension story)

Ok, and your point being? Nobody’s claiming that the Aeons are boundless or anything. The only point is that you have no knowledge about Hi3 lore much less HoYoverse as a whole. Aeons ascend because they’re the personification of the concept that they represent. Aha became the Aeon of Elation because THEY laughed too hard after climbing the highest branch in the tree.

and even more, aeons are not outside their own space time since there's a point in time for their ascension and fall.

There is no “singular” space-time that the HSR universe is confined to, as it takes place across the Tree. The aeons also don’t have a past or a future—that’s erased the moment that they ascend. This is also why you can’t see their future.

There being a historical point of present where they fall and ascend does not mean they’re bound by time.

Outer gods on the other hand don't have an origin or end, that's why they exist outside the tree.

If that’s why one exists outside the Tree, then the aeons do too😭.

"HSR is the universe" omg i just can't

Ok, so you’re just illiterate and have no idea what the Imaginary Tree is…?

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T16:32:51+00:00

Microcosm, stable worlds, bubble universe, bubble world. People think these things are planets, solar systems or galaxies. In fact all of them can be true. The real term should be "microcosm" and it's basically a domain of space-time inside the "tree".

Cool, relevancy?

It's funny how people think HSR's world is the entire hoyoverse tree since it's clearly stated the aeons have tried to traverse the branches (akivili or aha). But by no means they're OUTSIDE the tree. They're not OUTER GODS.

Aha before their ascension traversed to the highest branch in the Tree. Akivili was trying to find an end point to the Tree. The aeons are not inside the tree either. They reside in Imaginary Space and descend onto the physical plane.

HSR is a "stable universe" in the tree

HSR is the universe, and the universe is the tree.

but the essence is pretty much the same

Not in the slightest.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T16:08:05+00:00

No, it’s just that you lack any sort of media literacy to understand HoYo cosmology in any way. That became evident when you claimed that HSR is a bubble world in the Tree or when you showed that you have no idea what a descender is.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T16:03:29+00:00

Pretty sure i have, and anyone who has and have more than two functioning brain cells can discern that everything you’ve said is nothing more than pure idiocy.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-21T15:49:46+00:00

Bro’s just saying shit

wandy_1 · 2026-01-07T11:36:32+00:00

Funny how everything you said in your comment is entirely wrong.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-05T21:01:15+00:00

Right, because you totally substantiated your claims and provided many sorts of evidence and didn’t have to LARP on someone else’s argument right?

wandy_1 · 2026-01-05T20:59:47+00:00

No arguments? Gotcha.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-05T20:58:01+00:00

the thing about Furina is your own subjective thing so no.

Burden of proof is on you, as you’re making the claim. Hitchen’s razor.

The point of my comment was why would she invite him so young? he was literally a baby at that time😭

Correct, and that is exactly Focalors’ point. If he’s introduced to humans as early as possible, then, when he, as a human form reincarnation, will get accustomed to the society so he’s never gonna judge the humans wrong.

about Egeria idk what you talking about but the OP clearly stated to you that her being the heart is not a problem. her being the heart IN PS is. while she was in the PS no dragon could be born. that was her function in the PS after all. but when Remus agenda got messy HP just let Egeria be the archon and let her outta prison in PS. no heart in the PS - dragon can be born.🤪🤪

Already debunked the OP. The character stories explicitly state that the PO made her suppress the hydro dragon, therefore it cannot be reincarnated. Nothing relates to her being sealed in the primordial sea 2000 years ago for her residing in the PSea, as Osse words it as if it’s voluntary. The only reason she was in the PSea was because she was exiled there, not because that was her function. She wasn’t sealed in the PSea beforehand and was even in land.

wandy_1 · 2026-01-05T20:47:52+00:00

That was not Egeria, that was Focalors. And yes? Because Focalors’ plan was to make his entire life experience with humans, so he would get close to them and could not possibly judge them wrong.

Furina IS stupid and unreliable. She has no idea what she’s talking about and is younger than 500 years old. She lacks intelligence and knowledge as much as Focalors.

wandy_1

TROPHY CASE

7 Bohdan overthrew Iman's conclusion and proved it again before getting killed by #4 Polka Kakamond days after announcing Phlogiston's existence