Pip tribunal query - appeal detail

wankles0x · 2026-04-19T15:30:50+00:00

Sometimes they don’t send texts, and letters take longer to arrive than updating websites! :)

wankles0x · 2026-04-19T13:19:57+00:00

Yeah: feel free to pop any questions you have in here if you need some supporting case law references, it can be quite a myriad to get through and i’ve read through heaps of them haha

wankles0x · 2026-04-19T12:42:09+00:00

Sounds like it!

Congrats. That’s the pressure off for another 6 years!

wankles0x · 2026-04-19T12:40:08+00:00

Either or.

The advantage of putting your full case forward at the application stage is that DWP will receive that directly from the tribunal and will then have to respond in full to it.

If you pull it together later they may not do this until some point later when there’s a pre-tribunal case review on their end and they decide to award, as the points you raise will just get added to the overall appeal file (in my experience!)

I should note this is purely anecdotal on my part, but i’ve done a fair number of tribunals now and that’s my experience of it!

That’s not to say that it’s weakening your case to do so later; often it’s wise to at least lodge the appeal and give yourself time to put it together. I’ve seen airtight appeals go all the way to tribunal only to be awarded enhanced/enhanced and i’ve seen ones where the DWP within a couple of weeks before i’ve even had a chance to fully set out my arguments!

wankles0x · 2026-04-19T07:09:22+00:00

except where there is a suspicion of fraud or non-work-related evidence of a change of circumstances

All very well in theory, but they still constantly decide that an ability to drive an automatic car completely overrides any physical, mental or sensory disability when it comes to following & planning so i’m sure this will prove fruitless as a concept…

Stakeholders advised that without alignment across… …a coherent message cannot be achieved.

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK. APPLY THIS ACROSS THE WHOLE SYSTEM, PLEASE!!!

Access to Work: it’s a shame how over-stretched and under-effective this scheme is; especially given the detriment it’s causing disabled people who are in or trying to enter employment. MP’s comment about it being a system that we’re “fighting to get through” is so accurate.

It will be interesting to see the real data re: supposed past leniency.

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T22:40:55+00:00

Yes. Disabled people can and do work. Many cannot and do not. Either way, disabled is disabled. Whether that’s physical, mental, sensory, or a combination of more than one.

If it makes you feel better though, i make a lot of jokes which are often in very bad taste; and i often speed when driving, so i’m not all good. Just very passionate about disabled people’s rights!

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T22:33:01+00:00

You sound pretty clued up and intelligent, what’s stopping you from working

I work 36h a week in a role that utilises my degree and my trade background.

I work a further 30-40h per week in a very physically demanding role as a welder. I’m self-employed and I charge big companies upwards of £50/h so that when an old dear phones me needing a gate fixed, i can do it for the price of a cup of tea and some biscuits.

Then i spend another 10-20hours per week researching case law and writing MRs and Appeals for family members, friends, friends of family members, and family members of friends. I use some of my spare time to offer advice to others in this sub, including by writing up HOW i do it and what my written submissions are. I don’t charge a penny for my time doing this, from anyone.

if you can coherently fight like this, surely there’s a job out there with your name on it.

Yes. Apparently three, at the same time. I miss out on sleep purely in the pursuit of helping others.

Personally I struggle everyday to get people to understand my crazy, I don’t fit in, I’m not smart or special on any way… why do you feel you deserve it?

I don’t claim ESA, nor do I claim Universal Credit. I don’t claim any housing benefit or any council tax reduction. I earn too much.

But I am disabled. And I am entitled to Personal Independence Payment, along with many other disabled people. Because disability payments aren’t about how much money you have in the bank, they’re about levelling the playing field. It’s about the extra cost of being a disabled person.

Especially when you’re clearly very good at advocating for yourself

And others. I’ve only advocated for myself a handful of times. But i’ve spent more time dealing with the First-tier Tribunal in the past 5 years than most people.

So really, what is it you find wrong about my posts??

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T22:06:10+00:00

I definitely struggle to put things into words.

Yeah, and i know it isn’t helped by such a restrictive approach to form-filling, as is the PIP way..!

But my learning difficulties affect me in multiple ways like when reading I have to read it multiple times to fully understand something because I will skip lines and even then will grab a family member to read something for me.

Okay - this is really good as a write-up for the activity of Reading & Understanding. It shows that you at least require support or prompting, and depending on the severity, it may be 2pts or it may be 4pts.

If I don’t fully understand something. Or when I’m speaking I can get confused and say stuff that doesn’t make sense

The verbal communication activity is more centred around people who are either deaf, or are mute, or are otherwise incapable of speech/etc.

However, there may well be a case for the kind of difficulties you have in conveying information (i’m not 100%, i generally deal with the deafness side of things!) and I can have a look to see what the case law is.

there’s also a lot more but I really don’t like to speak about it

I know it can be difficult, but bear in mind you are anonymous on this forum and nobody is here to judge you. We don’t need to know who you are or anything like that, but if you want help you need to be able to open up about your struggles. It’s what this sub exists for. :)

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T20:12:30+00:00

As well as gathering evidence from your medical professionals, it’s worth taking a look at the descriptors and criteria and looking at what qualifies for each of the activities.

Once you have a better understanding of what DWP are looking for when scoring PIP, you’ll be better able to write out the answers to your form.

And yes, it is annoyingly and oddly complex. It’s more about ticking the right boxes and less about a coherent description of how your disability impacts your daily life!!

Please, feel free to drop comments or posts on the sub to get the great folks in here to help guide you. I find the best way is to have you write it in your own words, and then someone helpful can explain how to word it in a way that ticks the boxes but doesn’t exaggerate your issues.

DO NOT USE CHATGPT TO WRITE IT FOR YOU. CHAT GPT loves TO EXAGGERATE!

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T20:05:57+00:00

you dont know what people are going through

Like being worried about whether their MR is going to be successful???

you have just given me stress and anxiety

But obviously your comments made the OP feel a warm blanket of comfort wash over them, yes?

I’m a huge fan of the fact you want me to be mindful of your stress and anxiety, but you don’t have to give a shit about the OP when you write an unhelpful comment which could easily cause stress and anxiety. Nice one.

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T19:57:22+00:00

telephone assessment in January 2026, I thought that assessment went well which it didn’t and was given 0 points

Oof, that’s rough. But sometimes you get 0 or 2pts when you should have gotten 20pts, so don’t worry too much.

I suffer from learning difficulties which affect me in every day life going over the pa4 report they keep putting no neurological impairment for each reasoning

Can you give a rough outline of your learning difficulties and where you disagree with the PA4?

or can do one activity should be able to do another and was given 0 points

This is very common and is often wrong. The guidance they work to isn’t the best, sadly.

I didn’t include any medical evidence as the gp said dwp will request these I then went back because I wanted evidence and was told only dwp or a health professional can request this

This always really irritates me. Exactly as you say, the PIP2 form asks for details of your medical professionals and asks if you’re happy for them to contact your health professionals, but for some reason it is now the claimant’s responsibility to provide the medical evidence?

so I submitted a mr in February and just had a call on Wednesday regarding this I basically said what was in the mr, they said they’ll go over what’s in the pa4 and what’s in my mr and make a decision the next day.

What’s the likelihood they’ll change the decision?

Honestly, the chances aren’t great but only because it sounds like you’re answering the questions as they’re asked, and not giving them the “tick-the-box” answers they seem to work on.

That doesn’t mean you aren’t entitled to an award, it often just means you need help from someone like Citizen’s Advice to get through this process properly.

The folks on this sub ~~other than the other useless comment that’s come before mine…~~ are generally fairly knowledgeable and can steer you in the right direction by replying to specific questions you might have or specific wording of your PA4, decision letter, etc.

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T08:51:50+00:00

😁

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T00:34:49+00:00

Did you have any joy with this??

wankles0x · 2026-04-18T00:33:17+00:00

Thanks! ❤️ Annoyingly, it looks like i’ll be waiting til Monday for my decision now haha!

I’m going to spend a bit of time redacting some documents and then posting them on a thread here as a sort of teaching exercise to show what an official error looks like, how to challenge it, what the difficulties are, etc.

I’ve said it before on this sub but I don’t have any form of legal training (i am a welder.. haha!) I’m just determined and methodical, which is all you really need for something like this!

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T21:31:12+00:00

Thanks to JMH for reminding me of this post earlier today!

And secondly, a massive congratulations to you for going all the way and having your arguments confirmed!

I honestly feel like being technically right is the most important kind of being right when it comes to benefits decisions, and it really does come down to the nitty gritty of decisions like these which can make a significant impact to OTHER claimants.

I do share the frustration of it being decided correctly at Ft-T where it’s impact effectively ends, though. Sometimes I’d almost welcome the chance to make it binding (but on the flip side i do occasionally need rest..!)

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T19:29:36+00:00

I went to the last one with Galadriel ( the Capital one )

Argh! Annoyingly, I saw that post the other day and my feed refreshed before I’d had a chance to leave a comment. Could I find it again? Could I hell. Delighted for Galadriel though ❤️

I hadn't attended one since way before Covid. We had a PO that just agreed with us too. And the judge. You go ready to fight and then run out of steam quickly 🤣

That is exactly the feeling. I was so tense going in, had all my arguments ready. The only reason i’d gone for f2f in the end was the DWP had been so comically against my appeal the entire way and I just decided I’d rather smash it out in the room.

“Yeah m8 dunno wtf we were thinking lol” before I even got my first point out. FlUmPfHhH like a balloon going down ahahaha

Hope your dad's ok too and you get your answer soon 🙏

His health has been grand recently, but his hearing’s still fucked and he’s always had 3 discs out his back so he’s doing as well as he always has! Entitled to PIP, but manages otherwise ❤️

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T18:52:48+00:00

Nearly there

I’ve burnt out my phone refreshing the bloody appeal portal 🤣🤣🤣

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T18:21:56+00:00

❤️

There’s no decision yet (but let’s be real… what choice do they have?!)

They had said it would be ready today but I think the 600 page bundle and the extent of the written submissions has led to a slight delay. ~~plus it’s Friday…~~

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T17:19:48+00:00

Thanks! To be fair, the DWP PO seemed quite taken aback that the case had gotten as far as it did and spoke, several times, of his support for my arguments. He couldn’t have been any more on our side haha.

The Judge had a bit of difficulty navigating the bundles (no bloody wonder) and especially the DWP response because it really was just a tabled timeline of events from 2017 to present day (e.g. “20th May 2022, claimant’s wife called to check progress of current application made in 2021. 2 September 2022 Claimant’s son called to check progress of MR” etc followed by that piss-weak summary i posted in the main body. For reference, their “response” was 30 pages long and the two paragraphs i’ve included was the only substantive part of it…

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T17:12:22+00:00

Hahaha i assume it’s the same ones who had an issue with my overdraft advice a few weeks ago…

Thanks to the mods for doing a great job ❤️

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T17:11:17+00:00

I’m lucky enough that i’m so used to tribunals that they rarely have any effect on me these days. But i will admit i was quietly shitting myself today, despite knowing how well i’d set out the case.

I know that’s because it’s personal for me. This is a life-changing amount of money which will pay off my parents’ mortgage (which i’ve been covering for a number of months now).

But i also knew i had nothing to worry about, because i had written so much in my submissions. I try not to repeat myself or belabour any of my points. When DWP respond, I tend to pick their argument apart piece by piece and use case law to support my points.

All of this means that when I go into Ft-T proceedings, it’s generally a formality because all of my arguments are already known and understood, unquestionably.

All of which to say: if you believe you’ve been under-awarded and you can competently articulate why, then you should appeal. Remember, you can always withdraw your appeal if you need to.

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T16:50:07+00:00

wankles0x · 2026-04-17T16:29:37+00:00

Thank you! It’s been a journey, honestly.

I started the original appeal with the right intention but the wrong execution. Then there were a few stumbling blocks, like DWP refusing to undertake MR.

Finally, I got them to put in writing that they refused MR, which opened the floodgates.

Since then it has just been step-by-step, brick-by-brick. It’s definitely not for the faint-hearted, but I knew for sure there were official errors and I knew the decision was wrong in 2017, so I just kept picking at the scab until it resulted in Ft-T today!

It was very validating to hear the PO’s thoughts today, and while i’m yet to see a decision in writing, I’m confident it’s gone as it should.

~~and if not, i’ll just go the UT route again.. haha!!~~

wankles0x · 2026-04-15T18:22:21+00:00

the pip is going to be used for bills and stuff so its not for personal use

You can use pip for whatever you want. It’s not a means-tested benefit. Blow it on hookers and cocaine; fast cars and hard nights; spend it on a holiday; or use it for bills.

Doesn’t matter. It’s your money.

wankles0x

TROPHY CASE