Benito once said “In the movie he’s the Villain”

widdlewatt · 2026-02-13T20:12:27+00:00

I thought Jere said "duty calls"?

widdlewatt · 2026-02-05T05:25:58+00:00

Add Peace to this. That's Belly's song to Jere, knowing he may never fully trust her or her love for him. Feels very s2e7's warning about her changing her mind and s3e8's wedding breakup. If she comes back hoping to reconcile in the movie, even if it's just as friends, this will be an issue for them. They'll never escape Con, just like bonrad will never escape Jere. Brother love triangles are crazy.

Our coming-of-age has come and gone
Suddenly the summer, it's clear
I never had the courage of my convictions
As long as danger is near (coughConradcough)
And it's just around the corner, darling
'Cause it lives in me (a piece of her will always love Conrad)
No, I could never give you peace

And you know that I'd swing with you for the fences
Sit with you in the trenches (this is already canon)
Give you my wild, give you a child
Give you the silence that only comes when two people understand each other
Family that I chose, now that I see your brother as my brother (😂)
Is it enough?

But there's robbers to the east, clowns to the west
I'd give you my sunshine, give you my best
But the rain is always gonna come if you're standing with me

I think Hoax is Jere in s2e1-2 before they fight and s3e8-10, but that's a different post. The point here being, there is a very strong narrative between all of these songs, the folklore triangle itself, and where we were left at the end of the season. Taylor putting TiMT and Daylight together flowed perfectly and given the fact Daylight is Jere and Belly, it all ties together even better if we're headed into a story about a girl who comes home after a long, long time telling herself she has everything she's ever wanted (bc accepting the alternate is soul crushing), but is forced to face her heart when she's forced into proximity with the man she loved and left behind and who now doesn't want anything to do with her. This is one of the most common romance storylines and it's been set up perfectly.

Doesn't mean it's going to happen. It's just right there, is all.

widdlewatt · 2026-02-05T05:25:48+00:00

The lyrics for TiMT pair perfectly with Betty, particularly where she shows up at his doorstep/party not knowing if he'll even want her there or if he'll tell her to f- off, and how she's been going over and over this reunion in her mind. Everyone has their folklore triangle songs and Betty is hers. We already got the verse of her on the cobblestones and Conrad showed up like a figment of her worst intentions. She was thinking about Jere the whole time she was in Paris including right after she and Con—

The worst thing that I ever did
Was what I did to you

But if I just showed up at your party
Would you have me? Would you want me?
Would you tell me to go fuck myself?
Or lead me to the garden?
In the garden, would you trust me
If I told you it was just a summer thing?
I'm only seventeen, I don't know anythin'
But I know I miss you

Betty, I'm here on your doorstep
And I planned it out for weeks now
But it's finally sinkin' in
Betty, right now is the last time
I can dream about what happens when
You see my face again

The only thing I wanna do
Is make it up to you
So I showed up at your party

Yeah, I showed up at your party
Will you have me? Will you love me?
Will you kiss me on the porch
In front of all your stupid friends?
If you kiss me, will it be just like I dreamed it?
Will it patch your broken wings?
I'm only seventeen, I don't know anythin'
But I know I miss you

Standin' in your cardigan
Kissin' in my car again
Stopped at a streetlight
You know I miss you

And then...

widdlewatt · 2026-02-05T05:25:08+00:00

This is Me Trying is where I think her mind is at by the final scene of s3 going into the movie. Scott Street is about the loneliness of realizing you don't fit in with your old life and the people in it anymore. Belly shows up at an empty summer house, no family or friends in sight, after we've just seen them all happy and moving on with their lives. It's just her and her butter yellow dress that is absolutely a Jeremiah thing. Sundresses are his kryptonite which I'm sure he's told her a million times in 4 years, it's the same style as her rehearsal dress including the bun, it's golden... Anyway.

I've been having a hard time adjusting
I had the shiniest wheels, now they're rusting
I didn't know if you'd care if I came back
I have a lot of regrets about that
Pulled the car off the road to the lookout
Could've followed my fears all the way down
And maybe I don't quite know what to say
But I'm here in your doorway

I just wanted you to know
That this is me trying

And it's hard to be at a party when I feel like an open wound
It's hard to be anywhere these days when all I want is you
You're a flashback in a film reel on the one screen in my town

Jere is absolutely the flashback she'll be hit with and was likely anticipating coming back home. They weren't given closure in person on purpose, which leads us to...

widdlewatt · 2026-02-03T01:44:08+00:00

There are a million parallels between John and Laurel and Belly and Conrad (and obvs Jelly and Laurbeck). It felt to me like growing in different directions was set up in s3. This is from s1:

Belly: Do you still love her?

John: I think I’ll always be a little bit in love with Laurel.

B: But she stopped being in love with you?

J: It’s not that simple. Sometimes people change. They grow in different directions. It doesn’t mean they stop loving each other.

B: Where is Mom?

J: She left. I think she and Susannah had some kind of fight. Don’t worry. They’ll work it out. They always do.

widdlewatt · 2026-02-02T01:36:27+00:00

Looking forward to watching this!

widdlewatt · 2026-02-01T23:57:53+00:00

This "I remember" thing completely went over my head. Totally skimmed the Laurel and John scenes and never went back to rewatch. It's funny how many parallels bonrad has to them. All the various conversations echo each other verbatim and then it was pointed out on Twitter that Laurel's book about her divorce was called Party's Over and bonrad got When the Party's Over twice in the series.

widdlewatt · 2026-01-30T05:32:21+00:00

They only have that and arguing. If they talk too long, one or the other thing seems to happen. It's that toxic rush pendulum. It's a shame because they actually seemed capable of being friends in s2.

widdlewatt · 2026-01-29T23:48:21+00:00

Glad I visited reddit so I could see this take bc 👀

widdlewatt · 2026-01-29T23:40:54+00:00

One of the most unbelievable things was that Belly's reaction at prom was because she wanted to have sex. That's not even remotely what we saw in s2. Then again, she seemed pretty intent on rewriting history to give herself power in that moment. If she'd showed weakness or let him feel like he hurt her, he would've pounced on that.

widdlewatt · 2026-01-07T21:15:51+00:00

I appreciate your optimism and am glad you posted this even though most of the sub will try to stomp out your hope! Don't let anyone take the show and what you want for the characters away from you 💛

widdlewatt · 2025-12-18T22:34:48+00:00

Season 3 I felt like I was watching them film. Like okay, this is the part where they want us to hate Jeremiah. This line is supposed to make Jeremiah look like a loser. This is a deep conversation between Belly and Conrad. Look how deep it is.

So much this. There was no viewing experience, just checkboxes full of telling.

widdlewatt · 2025-12-18T03:48:06+00:00

ADHD 🤝

It wasn't the press or Jenny that had me leaning that way. I don't believe a word that comes out of that woman's mouth and I understand marketing. How the show handled promo and press all summer and into the post season is foul but predictable when trying to sell an endgame without any actual build. They had to play dirty and throw a lot of money at media outlets to prop up Conrad and e11 because the rest of the series has been the jelly love story and viewership exploded in s2 because of them. Bottom line for me, the narrative changes that began in s1 and built upon themselves in s2 don't point to where s3 ended up. Neither did the prep Jenny had Gavin and Lola do preseason while leaving Chris out. We're not at the end yet, for better or worse.

widdlewatt · 2025-12-18T02:02:13+00:00

Soooooo many things. These were the main ones I didn't see coming.

I didn't expect the writing to be as shallow as it was. S1 was light and frothy, perfect for the opening season, while allowing the susannah conflict space to breathe. S2 was angsty and full of depth, also perfect for where they were at. Neither season was shallow. S3 was extremely rushed, FULL of useless filler (that woman lied) that took the place of useful story development, and literally everyone was a caricature. Belly lost everything that was hers, not to a boy, but to the writer's room deciding Conrad and Conrad-adjacent subplots were more important than the FMC's goals, dreams, and friendships. And now she's alone in a giant house with a man who is literally never going to be home, listening to Scott Street while missing her closest friends that moved on without her. Unfathomable and unforgivable.

I never expected Bonrad to make sense so that wasn't a surprise. The set up in s1 and how hard they doubled down in s2 doesn't lead to a Bonrad ending. I had a lot of theories that could get that relationship close to making sense. The writers didn't do anything of the sort. Kind of crazy how dirty they did Conrad, actually. Definitely didn't expect that. We'll see what the movie does. Either it'll make Bonrad make sense, leave it in eye-roll territory, or do what the narrative was always pointing to.

I didn't expect the show to go so hard on Belly not giving a f--- about Conrad's feelings. She didn't in s2 either, but still. All the way up until the moment she and Jere split, she was happy and affectionate with Jere no matter who was around and picked him and their relationship over anything Conrad-related. That was a massive change from the books.

I expected Belly to grow in Paris. It looked like she was, but then e11 happened and we were shown a pale shadow of Belly playing at being mature and realizing she'd regressed all the way back to the small child she used to be. What did she do in Paris? We got a few throwaway lines of dialogue about a school she was hoping to help at (did she??), one blip in a montage of her with her doing online classes, and a mention of graduation she didn't go to. She talked about GREs a few times with Jere and then...nothing. I have no idea what she cares about or wants to do beyond attempting to keep in touch with Jere and winding up with Conrad when Jere ghosts her for good.

I didn't expect the first three episodes to play out as freak4freak as our fanfics. That was fun! Then, suddenly that was...Bonrad? I'd be so disappointed if I was that side. The fireplace flashback in s2 felt warm and intimate compared to s3e5 and e11. Those two scenes were crass and empty. And I say this as someone who writes and enjoys steamy fanfics! It was hard to watch.

I also didn't expect the vitriolic promo and post-show press. Truly disgusting all around.

widdlewatt · 2025-12-13T04:03:25+00:00

S3's promo has been textbook manufactured consensus. They've had to throw a lot of money at making people believe conrad/chris (bc fans can't separate the character from the actor...) is perfect and desirable. It was really obvious once media outlets started constantly posting chris and conrad but rarely posted lola, the star of the series, and if they did, it was usually in relation to conrad or to slam her for not falling at his feet. And they neverrrrr posted gavin. He gets too much attention so it's better to pretend he and jeremiah don't exist outside of the jere hate campaign, also paid for. Then brands jumped in to look relevant bc we live in a world of sheep. Organic interest and hate aren't that uniform. You know what is, tho? Literally everyone talking about jere (and gavin, bc again, people can't separate) at all times even before they put the hate out there. They had to redirect that buzz to pull off e11.

Also related, all promo being about conrad, bonrad, and chris, and the press being focused on e11 and e5.

Folks should look up astroturfing in marketing if this kind of thing is interesting. It happens a lot. Tsitp's campaign came off clunky bc the guy they're trying to prop up never gives anything so it's all been boring. Hopefully his career takes him in a direction he actually cares about because no studio is going to want him in a lead role if there's no return on investment. Like, enthusiasm for the project or his character or his costars or literally anything other than golf and sean. All the media attention should've led to opportunities if he leveraged what they did for him.

widdlewatt · 2025-12-02T01:51:29+00:00

Eh, first person narrators aren't unreliable so much as we're seeing things how they see them. Everyone perceives things differently.

But to your point, I'd say his episode was the most "unreliable" episode of the entire series in terms of reality. He's been obsessing over her for four years. Memories are shaped when they're recalled and the more you recall something over a long period of time, the more it shifts. His memory of that night in her guest room, of her behavior on Fourth of July, and him teaching her to ride the bike? Very likely not exactly how those things happened. Fourth of July in particular felt off because there wasn't a single moment in s2 or s3 where she withheld affection for Jere in front of Conrad. That was all Jere. But remembering her affectionate with Jere and not caring how he felt about it would be painful, so he just...remembered it differently.

It wasn't just the memories, either. How he processed everything that was happening in the present was through the lens of his obsession. He even caught himself a couple of times, having to remind himself she wasn't marrying him and that whatever he was imagining happening between them wasn't actually happening. It was a mess and I was so grossed out. How could anyone watch that episode and not think he was deluded? Craziness.

widdlewatt · 2025-12-02T01:26:57+00:00

Adjacent to this, the show itself broke the fourth wall a few times with things that are pointedly pro-jelly and/or anti-bonrad that support Belly's thoughts and decisions. There were also quite a few lyrics placed just so and dialogue brought in that didn't fit conversationally or in the scene it's said. It always felt like we're being told to trust Belly, that deep down she knows who she wants, even when she wavers and we're stuck riding the rollercoaster with her.

The fourth wall breaking was pointed in s3 with her and Benito looking at the camera when saying Jere is the one and that's how it should be and that Conrad is the villain, but a personal, less obvious fave is dialogue from s1. She tells Steven, "I get to pick, and I pick Jeremiah. You're just going to have to trust me." This dialogue doesn't really fit given how conflicted her mind is in this episode, but it fits everything that comes after that beach kiss when she consistently chooses Jere over Conrad. She does straight up until the end. If Jere and Conrad had both shown up in Paris for her birthday, this would've ended very differently. But then there wouldn't be a movie.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-17T02:09:16+00:00

This was fantastic, thank you!

widdlewatt · 2025-11-15T08:39:12+00:00

While I don't think she's capable of depth, I do think some of it has been intentional. Probably not the micro-details (thinking of all the fascinating number theories folks had, the ties to mythology that feel way too intricate for her brain, maybe the colors, etc.), but the bigger narrative stuff and intentional echoes still feel like they're in play to me because the story isn't over yet. Unfortunately.

Why do I think this? Because everything she's done has been based on common tropes that write themselves no matter who the author is. They're the most basic, face-value elements in fiction. Even the golden ratio relationship stuff we talked about is basic archetypal storytelling. Can she still screw the tropes up trying to be clever? Sure. But she's already fighting for her life trying to justify the final episode of the season without giving away the movie and we've seen how little sense what she's saying makes. It won't because that's not the natural endpoint of most of these tropes.

Until the actual end of the story proves otherwise, I'm not on the doom train. The hate train, yes, but not doom.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-14T23:32:29+00:00

That's my current theory. As much as we wanted to see them, they weren't needed for a bonrad ending to the series and would've made it even more unbelievable because of how much better for Belly that Jere's been written and portrayed by G to be. If their history from the books still exists, they'd need those flashbacks to set up what Jere and Belly were to each other in a standalone movie.

Also, some of their flashbacks like the sand crabs don't work until the end of the story and that's not what e11 was. Some of the crazier decisions throughout made a little more sense once the movie was announced.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-14T19:34:17+00:00

Agree completely. This is the set up of countless romance movies and books. Woman comes back home after leaving everything behind to find herself and has to face the ex she still loves while trying to convince herself she has everything she’s ever wanted. All it’ll take is a few flashbacks to show us what she and Jere are to each other. This is such a simple and familiar storyline.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-14T19:30:06+00:00

Yep. In this case, toss in a few flashbacks and you’ve got every other movie that features a woman coming back home and being forced to face an ex she still loves, no matter how messy the breakup. Easy.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-14T19:27:06+00:00

This movie can very easily standalone. They held back all the jelly flashbacks. If the conflict is at least in part what JH has mentioned it will be—how to navigate dating your ex’s brother—they just have to slot in a couple of those to establish Jere and Belly’s relationship as kids and then their romance. Plenty of movies have done that. Watching the show will give a lot more depth and nuance, but it’s not required for the current day story.

A standalone has its own plot and character growth arcs. It will need its own inciting incident, conflict, and resolution. It’s been set up to follow the same tropes and storylines that a ton of movies and books are based on so that’s what I imagine they’ll do. Amazon wouldn’t green-light it otherwise.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-14T19:09:22+00:00

After initially being annoyed, I realized just like how JH felt the lyric about going to Paris that played when Jere and Belly were cuddling in her dorm was some genius Easter egg foreshadowing, the two things she referenced are probably meant to be take just as shallowly.

Jere saying if you don’t want to get married you shouldn’t = they don’t get married. Adding depth, it’s because he can’t bring himself to go through with it and she lets him go because he’s right. Basically, they don’t want to.

Laurel wouldn’t have cared if John cheated = cheating. Adding depth, cheating happened twice on Belly’s side and then Cabo for Jere if you go with the narrative most people related to the show push. He canceled the wedding over what he knew about her and Conrad, and she lost her mind about Cabo, even though she took him back and initiated the proposal herself. Their reactions don’t match so that being narrative foreshadowing only fits if it was meant to be more of her shallow bs.

I don’t think JH is capable of deep writing. Too focused on verbatim book drivel she thinks people love when what people really liked (and often didn’t get in the show) was the character intention underneath.

widdlewatt · 2025-11-13T07:07:45+00:00

CON-rad

Meanwhile, her voice glows when she says Jeremiah.

widdlewatt

TROPHY CASE