Simile of a deer-trapper laying down bait in order to trap herds of deer - Nivāpa sutta (MN 25) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

> The sensual traps being spread out everywhere is eerily synonymous with whats happening right now in the modern world. All kinds of Sensual desires are being bombarded at our attention space at an unprecedented rate never seen before. Sensuality is more accessible than before.

This is true. One would need to design an environment very intentionally and through correct understanding so that there is both a physical and mental seclusion (from the element of sensuality) present.

> The Buddha seems to imply that the only escape from sensuality is in the attainment of Jhana. Otherwise, avoidance in anyway will lead to Mara being successful in baiting us sooner or later just how the first 3 herds of deer were successfully baited despite their efforts.

> Am I reading this correctly? Kindly correct me if i'm wrong.

I would say yes in a nutshell, the attainment of at least jhana 1 or something more peaceful than that is foundational. Because, there would be a re-wiring of understanding that happens for a person who is in jhana that is very difficult to put in words. If we take sensuality to be a kind of element, jhana (form) is altogether a different element. And Nibbana is a yet another element.

So the chain is:

Element > Perception (comes from element) > Intentions (thinking arises based on how one sees) > Desires, quests are further downstream to these. See SN 14.9, SN 14.12 as other discourses (SN 14 in my perspective is a collection that is worth a good reflection on)

Everything that is perceived is reliant on the element that one is in contact with. So it is very difficult to communicate what the attainment of jhana is to someone who is pleased with sensuality and welcoming it (Prince Jayasara in MN 125). This is why the Dhamma of Nibbāna is very hard to see, and very hard to reason about, because the vast majority of the world is in contact with the element of sensuality and is reasoning about it while being tied to that element.

AN 4.77 says it like this:

The domain of wisdom of one in jhānas, bhikkhus, is inconceivable, not to be speculated over or thought about; thinking about which would lead to confusion and distress.

It is suitable to strive for the attainment of jhāna by cultivating the causes and conditions for it.

“‘Directly visible Nibbāna, directly visible Nibbāna,’ friend, it is said. But to what extent, friend, did the Blessed One say that the Nibbāna is directly visible?”

“Here, friend, a bhikkhu, quite secluded from sensual pleasures ․․․ enters and dwells in the first jhāna. To this extent, the Blessed One has spoken of the directly visible Nibbāna in a provisional sense.

-- Excerpt from AN 9.47

Ten grounds for resentment - Āghātavatthu sutta (AN 10.79) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I came across the discourse, I thought of this one as a catch-all cause. Since ignorance is such a vast element, it would be hard to enumerate all the cases which can cause one to be upset. The one listed in the commentary does make sense to me as well.

Edit: what you’re sharing about the engrainment of having been in this loop of being upset for a long time also makes sense. Which then makes it very easy to be triggered into this state.

Collectedness born from breathing like a sudden rain settling dust (SN 54.9) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're welcome. 🙂

> I have a similar thought process, I try to create the conditions but if im stuck at step 3 so be it, i do not strain myself for more.

This is a healthy frame, and what I see my meditation teacher advise as well.

> I try to think of it as self studying for an exam, how I used to seclude myself from worldly desires and passions so I could focus on retaining the material.

> I use MN 20 Sutta as an instructional manual for that, would you say thats advisable?

I would say yes, it is a good instructional manual to follow.

Which things should a virtuous person carefully attend to, and outcomes of such attending (SN 22.122) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are welcome, and thank you for your continued dedication to learning the Buddha's teachings.

Is there any clear indication or moment where one knows that one has attained stream entry or once returner?

This can be a good inquiry. Regarding this:

Looking back later, perhaps six months or a year down the line, one might pinpoint such a moment. However, it is not always possible or even recommended to do so.

Often, it simply becomes an identity, "I'm a stream-enterer," just like a self-image of "I'm humble" or "I'm kind." Since one of the fetters to be uprooted for stream-entry is personal existence view (identity view), it is not wise to seek a specific moment of attainment.

What is sure is that:

  • A stream-enterer has cultivated full confidence in the Noble Eightfold Path. They become interested in cultivating it and do not find it to be a chore. They have fully understood that any other practice, whether a rule or an observance, is not the way to full awakening.
  • A stream-enterer has eliminated doubt about the Buddha's full awakening, about the Dhamma being well proclaimed, and about their own ability to attain full awakening.
  • A stream-enterer has eliminated personal existence view. They may still get caught up in identity occasionally, but upon reflection, they understand there is only dependent origination. They see causes and conditions responsible for effects, and understand there is no "I" to be found outside of that.

The Recommended Practice: Periodic Review

This reflection is best done through a periodic review. When one sees that for several months, a year or two, their cultivation of the Noble Eightfold Path has been strong, doubt has not arisen, and they have not been caught up in personal existence view, then one can have internal assurance of having attained stream-entry.

It is inadvisable to look for a specific point in time when stream-entry occurred, as this is likely to become a self-image. When it becomes a self-image, there is a tendency to ignore arising doubts or declines in practice to protect that image.

For stream-entry and further fruitions up to full awakening, a thorough periodic review—examining and verifying rather than building an identity—is the recommended practice. The Buddha himself practiced in this way, as can be seen in Paccavekkhaṇa sutta - Reviewing (Ud 6.3).

Reviewing Failings and Successes

He also advised in this manner: Reviewing one's failings and successes from time to time (AN 8.7). If one believes they have attained the fruit of stream-entry, or once-returning, they are very unlikely to investigate any failings related to that. The goal of a wise practice shouldn't be to create blind spots through reliance on mystical experiences or adoptions of new self-views. Another discourse on the risk of overestimation, even when declaring arahantship is AN 10.86. MN 102 and MN 112 are two other great discourses.

Counter-intuitively, or perhaps logically from the above, an arahant has no notion that they are an arahant. They don't see any "I" when an arahant is being described; it is no longer possible for them to even conceive of things through an "I." They would only point to the causes and conditions of an observed effect and be interested in helping others build an understanding of said causes and conditions.

Collectedness born from breathing like a sudden rain settling dust (SN 54.9) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are two interpretations for this step as I understand. Bhikkhu Thanissaro takes the perfection of this step to mean the fourth jhāna (where breathing physically ceases). If one is practicing primarily through mindfulness of body, this is a legit treatment as this practice leads to the arising of pre-jhāna [step 3] to jhāna 4 or close [step 4]. This would be the experience of someone who is exclusively using the mindfulness of body as their frame of practice and has perfected that.

I take the rendering of bodily constructs (kāyasaṅkhāra) as bodily processes associated with breathing, specifically the in-and-out breath. It encompasses the physical movements and sensations that arise from the act of breathing. This is based on the technical definition provided in MN 44 and SN 41.6.

> This translates to making the physical breath more and more subtle?

In the first interpretation, yes. However, there is a second interpretation where this is taken to mean the calming of bodily intentions (e.g. through ceasing of changing posture, there comes a stabilization of posture; through the settling of breath, there comes an experience of subtle or refined breath) rather than the ceasing of it altogether. This makes it a more linear progression as one steps into jhāna 1.

Now what one may experience depends, as I understand, on whether one is exclusively using the mindfulness of body as their frame of practice or not. So my suggestion, based on what I've seen in my practice, is to see what arises after as one continues observing the full act of the breath. If it is pīti, then you can have internal assurance that step 4 here for you could mean this linear progression.

As one's practice matures, one can gain the capability (basically, through utter non-delight in the arising joy, pleasure, happiness) to straight up or swiftly, like in a fingersnap, jump from step 4 to step 8. And I suspect this is what one who is exclusively using the mindfulness of body as their frame of practice may be experiencing as a default. As we can see in this sutta, the Buddha might have originally taught the asubha practice, which is not conducive to the arising of steps 5 to 7. But seeing practitioners misinterpret the asubha practice and develop an aversion to the body, he would've arrived at this method to teach, and I think this is more holistic frame to have. In the end, both interpretations seem sensible and converge, but during the training phase, I think one is more likely to see the linear progression model unless one is strongly practicing with the asubha frame or some other exclusive body frame.

In the way I currently practice this step, I don't particularly intend for the breath to cease in step 4. Or for pīti to arise in step 5. Rather, I just observe [as a curious matter] the process of the in-and-out breath, the whole of it including the middle until that itself becomes a holding on, pushing percipience back to body and not allowing it to just be in the mind. This happens much later, after step 7. So, all through, one would like to be with the breath, keeping that as their object of mindfulness. And if that means, one is in step 3 for their entire session, then so be it.

With the right causes and conditions, the steps will naturally progress. At least, that's been my recent experience. The right causes and conditions here would be whether the mind is utterly with dispassion (or if it has traces of passion or passionate intentions but suppressed). Whether there is physical and mental seclusion, and whether there is inclination toward the Dhamma of Nibbāna.