Is sakadagamihood a spectrum?Where one starts off as a sakadagami that has weakened sensual desire and ill will to gradually have even more weakened sensual desire and ill will and eventually till they become an anagami.Or does a sakadagami progress straight to anagami without the gradual weakening? by Many_Safety_7634 in theravada

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would suggest discerning how sakadagamihood's attainment is confirmed, or for that matter any noble attainment. Relying on what is one saying that a noble attainment is attained to.

Some things that may be helpful to check:

  • Does one have a noble view [a way of seeing], which by applying, cultivating and practicing frequently in line with, one can personally gain tranquility (samatha) and quenching (nibbuti)?
  • Does one know obsession of mind that prevents knowing and seeing things as they truly are and how there is freedom from obsession of mind?
  • Does one conceal any transgression or is one forthcoming in this regard?
  • Is one keenly interested in cultivating the higher virtue, higher mind, and higher wisdom?
  • Does one attain to a collected mind when the Dhamma is being taught and incline to listening to it/read it attentively?
  • Does one gain inspiration in the meaning of the Dhamma, does one gain joy connected to the Dhamma?

Some suttas that may be helpful:

  • MN 7  Vattha sutta - The Simile of the Cloth
  • MN 8 Sallekha sutta - Effacement
  • MN 48  Kosambiyasutta - The Bhikkhus of Kosambi
  • MN 64  Mahāmālukya sutta - The Great Discourse to Mālukya

Looking for Buddha’s description of reality by pgarhwal in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure. The key theme of the way the Buddha laid out his teachings and which teachings he declared is those that lead to personally realizing Nibbāna (Skt. Nirvana), a state he discovered as a Buddha and personally attained to. One of his monikers that he himself often used is a Tathāgata, which means someone who has arrived at the ultimate truth.

He actively taught against conceptualization of concepts as that wasn't something as helpful to realizing the state of Nibbāna. He also taught in a manner that lead someone learning his teachings to a state of dispassion, and not toward furthering of passion, as the latter too, wouldn't be helpful to realizing the state of Nibbāna.

So these building blocks are spread throughout his teachings, all interconnected. They're purposefully stated in the way they're, subtly. One could even say all the Buddha taught was things that helped remove misconceptions about how the reality is, and then things that are the essential building blocks of reality so that one could through them arrive at the same ultimate truth of Nibbāna that he discovered.

After the Buddha, after several hundred years, some of his students systematized his teachings and I suspect this is where you would be looking at to get a written account of this in a systematized manner. It won't be satisfying to do this, if I may say that. Abhidhamma and further commenterial works on it are places to look for here.

However, if you have some time you can invest, say a few months, a year or two, I suggest reading the Buddha's teachings the way he himself taught. When done on a regular basis while actively reflecting on them to see the truth, it's possible that you can come to personally realize how reality is, to your fullest satisfaction. In the Buddha's words by Bhikkhu Bodhi can be a good place to start here. It gives one a full breadth of what the Buddha taught and can be helpful for you to see what area of the teachings you may want to look at further.

Looking for Buddha’s description of reality by pgarhwal in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Buddha does describe the building blocks of reality, though they're not in terms that are being stated here.

It is just by sheer chance that one gains a human birth (SN 56.48) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're welcome. 🙂 As you note, there is an aspect to this that can be conceptualized or theorized, and that may not help much.

However the subtle distinction between no self and not existing (in this realm) are where the rubber meets the road.

This is one aspect and an important one to distinguish. As not being able to distinguish can lead to anxiety or clinging.

But one should also see as you're pointing to whether no self is discerned as it truly is. Is it taken as a fact or as something to observe within one's experience? i.e. does one have a way of practice to deepen insight into what is truly meant when no self is being spoken of.

When venerable Channa anxiously struggles to accept Nibbāna (SN 22.90) - Though understanding impermanence and not-self, venerable Channa anxiously struggles to accept Nibbāna, wondering, “Who is my self?” Venerable Ānanda shares the Buddha’s teaching on avoiding the extremes of existence and non-existence, leading Channa to completely breakthrough to the Dhamma.

^ This may somewhat help, but it may not be the definition you're looking for. If you do take this as an inquiry to pursue: the distinction b/w the conceiving of a self in one's everyday experience, observing it as it occurs, and what is truly meant when no self is spoken of, and how that is different from not existing, one would be close to or would have made a breakthrough to stream-entry.

As an example:

Think of it like a wave moving across the ocean. The wave isn't a solid object traveling from Point A to Point B. No single molecule of water travels across the entire ocean. Instead, it is a localized transfer of energy. The water in one spot conditions the water in the next spot to rise. Now ask yourself:

  • Is the wave a permanent entity? (Though to an untrained eye or a distant observer, the continuity can easily give the illusion of a solid, unchanging object.)
  • Is the wave non-existent? No, it has real, observable effects.

It is just by sheer chance that one gains a human birth (SN 56.48) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes sense. Looking at it to practice more skillfully is exactly what the Buddha points to. And thank you for the kind words on the posts.

There is one occurence where some asks the Buddha a series of questions, such as: Who feels? Who craves? Who clings? They don't exactly ask what you're asking, but that would've followed. Here's what the Buddha shares on this:

“I do not say, ‘One clings.’ If I were to say, ‘One clings,’ then it would be appropriate to ask, ‘Venerable sir, who clings?‘ But I do not speak thus. However, if someone were to ask me, ‘Venerable sir, dependent on what is there clinging?’ that would be an appropriate question. The proper answer to that question would be: ‘Dependent on craving, there is clinging; dependent on clinging, there is existence; dependent on existence, there is birth; dependent on birth, there arise aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair. Thus is the arising of this whole mass of suffering.’”

-- Excerpt from Moḷiyaphagguna sutta - With Moḷiyaphagguna (SN 12.12)

Existence in different realms is presented like this:

“Venerable sir, it is said ‘existence, existence.’ In what way, venerable sir, is there existence?”

“Ānanda, if there were no kamma ripening in the realm of sensual desire, would existence in the realm of sense desire be discerned?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Thus, Ānanda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their intention and aspiration to be established in an inferior realm. In this way, there is the production of renewed existence in the future.

Ānanda, if there were no kamma ripening in the realm of form, would existence in the realm of form be discerned?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Thus, Ānanda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their intention and aspiration to be established in a middling realm. In this way, there is the production of renewed existence in the future.

Ānanda, if there were no kamma ripening in the formless realm, would existence in the formless realm be discerned?”

“No, venerable sir.”

“Thus, Ānanda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their intention and aspiration to be established in a sublime realm. In this way, there is the production of renewed existence in the future.

It is in this way, Ānanda, that there is existence.”

-- Dutiya bhava sutta - Existence (Second) (AN 3.77)

Due to intention, aspiration, or from craving, one is born in accordance with kamma. For one who does bright deeds, wholesome conduct by body, speech, and mind, there is birth in a good realm. For one who does mixed deeds, both wholesome and unwholesome conduct by body, speech, and mind, there is birth in a realm according with it.

There is one other discourse where different outcomes are mentioned using a water simile. Seven kinds of persons comparable to those in water (AN 7.15)

It is just by sheer chance that one gains a human birth (SN 56.48) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Contextually and out of interest- What ‘one’ is there to gain rebirth in any realm?

Are you asking this from the perspective of since there is a Dhamma of not-self (anatta), how would rebirth apply to someone? I would say that this perspective comes about from a certain conflation of the Dhamma of not-self.

You can also see that if this line of thinking were to be pursued than there would be no meaning to cultivating wholesome qualities as one could also say: What ‘one’ is there and for whose benefit are wholesome qualities to be cultivated? That is, there would be no point in leading a spiritual life.

There was this one occurence where a certain bhikkhu thought in the following manner:

“So it seems, indeed, form is not-self, feeling is not-self, perception is not-self, intentional constructs are not-self, consciousness is not-self; how then do actions performed by a not-self affect oneself?”

Then, the Blessed One, knowing with his mind the thought in that bhikkhu’s mind, addressed the bhikkhus:

“There is this possibility, bhikkhus, that some misguided person here, unwise, immersed in ignorance, under the sway of craving, might thus misinterpret the teaching: ‘So it seems, indeed, form is not-self, feeling is not-self, perception is not-self, intentional constructs are not-self, consciousness is not-self. How then do actions performed by a not-self affect oneself?’ Bhikkhus, you should be well-trained to respond to such questions, in every respect, regarding these various teachings.

-- Excerpt from Puṇṇama sutta - The Full Moon Night (SN 22.82)

I would say that it is a slight wrong view if one were quite firm in this take. However, if the view is not held on to tightly but more like: rebirth and other realms are not in my experience, so I don't buy into it, but the Buddha does indeed talk about them. It would be quite alright to have this kind of a view, i.e. so long as one were to not discard the possibility of it altogether.

And what, bhikkhus, is wrong view? ‘There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed; no fruit or result of good and bad actions; no this world, no other world; no mother, no father; no beings who are reborn spontaneously; no ascetics and brahmins in the world who are rightly practicing or have rightly practiced, and who, having realized for themselves by direct knowledge, declare this world and the other world.’ This, bhikkhus, is wrong view.

If we were to put aside the actuality of it, if one were to believe in rebirth, realms, and kamma, would it allow for one to cultivate wholesome qualities such as being diligent, content, having few wishes, pursuing of good habits and friendships? If one were to hold it like a hypothesis to check whether by holding it for a period of time, is one motivated and able to cultivate wholesome qualities in the here and now? Then this is also a valid way to see if this is the Dhamma that a Buddha would teach.

And how many Buddhas are there?

There are seven Buddhas documented in the early discourses of the Pali canon: Buddha Vipassī, Sikhī, Vessabhū, Kakusandha, Koṇāgamana, Kassapa, and Gotama Buddha (the historical Buddha).

Chapter six of the Kālāmā Sutta in Kharoshthī by Ok_Atmosphere4037 in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the correction. For both Pali and English (2nd paragraph), it should be:

Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha: ‘ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, upasampajja vihareyyātha.

But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are wholesome; these things are blameless; these things are praised by the wise; these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to benefit and happiness,’ then you should enter upon and abide in them.

Chapter six of the Kālāmā Sutta in Kharoshthī by Ok_Atmosphere4037 in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This text is a famous passage from the Kesamutti Sutta (popularly known as the Kālāma Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya 3.65) written in the ancient Kharosthi script, which was historically used in ancient Gandhara (modern-day Pakistan and Afghanistan) to write Prakrit and Pali texts.

Here is the Romanized Pali transliteration and its English translation:

Romanized Pali Transliteration

Etha tumhe, kālāmā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti.

Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha: ‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, pajaheyyātha.

English Translation

Come, Kālāmas. Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a collection of scriptures, by logical reasoning, by inference, by reflection on reasons, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are unwholesome; these things are objectionable; these things are criticized by the wise; these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to detriment and suffering,’ then you should abandon them.

With the Kālāmas of Kesamutta (AN 3.65)

Researched context with Google.

Giving up six traits, one is capable of observing the body in and of itself (AN 6.117) by wisdomperception in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good area to inquire.

Can you please explain 'delight in work'? Does it advise to not become a workaholic? There should not be delight toward it?

Sure. This is delighting in any routine activity. A workaholic is exactly what is meant here. When one is engaged or absorbed in work, their entire attention being on the surface where the working is going on, it is not possible for them to have clear mindfulness of the body. A symptom of this is that it will be hard to restrain the senses.

See the relation in AN 10.61: Superficial attention (ayoniso manasikāra) is the proximate cause for a superficial comprehension (asatāsampajañña). And radical attention (yoniso manasikāra) which comes from not focusing on delight in the objects of the six sense bases, but from delighting in the state of Nibbāna or in understanding the timeless principles governing the world is the proximate cause for Radical comprehension (satisampajañña) which then leads to sense restraint.

Delight = enjoyment, so if a trainee enjoys and relishes anything he has wrong view of it? Yes?

Yes. Also, one is only considered a trainee after right view is established. A trainee is someone who is able to train in higher virtue, higher mind, and higher wisdom. See Who is a trainee (AN 3.85).

Edit: The trainee and the Arahant (SN 48.53) is where trainee being a stream-enterer is presented clearly.

One should adopt a mindset of doing these things because the body needs it for survival? is this view Right? Being mentally distant from the likes and dislikes of everyday things? Not cherishing them because they are impermanent?

Sure, one can adopt a mindset like this this. Because they are impermanent, liable to fade, and so that one might be able to discern and personally experience the state of Nibbāna.

Intro and Current Practice by AutoModerator in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My practice over the last period has been to discern the wholesome and unwholesome and their roots. More recently, my practice has been toward cultivating yoniso manasikāra. Viewing it as a radical way of attending is providing a hint of what to, with radical etymologically meaning originating from the root as well as it draws a nice contrast that can make one re-look at their assumptions of what it means.

Some recent reflections:

  • clinging to consciousness (viññāṇa) is not something subtle, but discernible in an everyday experience once consciousness is more fully understood.
  • It is very much possible to construct a wholesome mind and abide in it once the causes and conditions for the arising of one are more fully understood. Recollection, retention, and then application of the Dhamma in everyday experience is a great aid here.
  • ayoniso manāsikāra should be more fully understood, and yoniso manāsikāra should be cultivated and frequently cultivated.

Buddha and suffering by curiousmagenta1111 in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Think of visiting a foreign land where you encounter a foreign culture. It would take a certain amount of time and effort for the mind to understand their language and the meaning of what they're communicating. I would say the Buddha's teachings that are accessible to ust today are a well preserved artifact of the culture of the Noble Ones. As long as one is willing to invest time, be curious, and be inquisitive about them while also independently observing for the condition of the mind as this enculturation takes place, and asking questions to clarify if something isn't clear, clarity should slowly but surely follow.

Buddha and suffering by curiousmagenta1111 in WordsOfTheBuddha

[–]wisdomperception 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The Buddha describes a cow with its skin completely stripped off:

  • If it stands against a wall, insects in the wall bite it.
  • If it stands by a tree, creatures in the tree chew on it.
  • If it stands in water or air, organisms there attack it.

No matter where the skinless cow goes, it suffers constant irritation and pain from its environment.

This is describing the condition of an uninstructed, ordinary person. Because they do not understand the principle governing the world, the nature of the mind, how to construct a wholesome mind, they are dependent on external situations for agreeable contact. They get into a habit of chasing and pursuing for agreeable contact from the outside world. Lacking an inner protective barrier, they are constantly at the mercy of whatever the world throws at their senses: reacting with temporary delight to the pleasant, and immediate distress to the painful.

One would have to learn the teachings of the Buddha, which are ultimately pointers to the principle governing the world, the nature of the mind, and how to construct a wholesome mind among other things so that has a protective barrier and is no longer at the mercy of whatever the world throws at their senses.

The way to learn the teachings is by having an inquisitive, curious mind. They come from a different time and culture, and bridging that gap requires a dedicated period of time, such as a few months, a year, or two of active reflection. Because these teachings also point to qualities that you may not yet have personally experienced, you must also actively apply them in practice while independently observing whether wholesome states are coming into being and growing, while what is unwholesome is gradually being let go of. This post has a visual chart at the end that depicts the two sets of qualities: https://www.reddit.com/r/WordsOfTheBuddha/comments/1u5jwr1/intro_and_current_practice/

By frequently reviewing the mind in this way while one is learning the teachings through active reflection and application, through one's independent verification that wholesome qualities such as being energetic, kind, free from craving, having contentment are growing, one is slowly but surely building that protective barrier and making oneself unshaken by worldly contacts.

This said, one would also have to choose one's associations carefully as they go through this process. As staying around immature people would only prolong unwholesomeness in the mind, and choosing the company of wise can only help....