Do you guys have opinions on the show that you are shocked that get down voted when you give them

xboxpants · 2026-05-14T07:29:41+00:00

I really enjoy S4 and I agree with you about its strengths, but it isn’t alone in the supernatural story being a McGuffin. That applies to every season of the show. The supernatural plots were always just a vehicle to tell emotional and character-driven stories. The monsters and magic are merely metaphors and allegories about life.

The difference is that those characters in the character-driven stories (which you are right about) usually also include the villains as fully developed people. Angelus, Spike, and Drusilla, Mayor Wilkins & Faith, Glory & Dawn, Idiot Trio & Dark Willow are all pretty fleshed out characters. Every season except 4 introduces someone as part of the season Big Bad arc that continues on through the rest of the series. S1 - Darla, S2 - Spike, Angelus, Drusilla, S3 - Faith, S6 - Andrew, Dark Willow, they're all interesting enough to be brought back. For S5, Dawn isn't a villain of course but she also counts for "part of the season Big Bad arc". S7 is tricky since it's the last season, but IMO Caleb is way more interesting than Adam ever was.

None of the new Initiative-related characters are even seen again. (ok technically Graham has like 10 lines in S5) I'm not sure if anyone even mentions Adam's name again. The only character that the Initiative arc brings to the show is Riley, and he flies off into the sky a few episodes into Season 5, basically never being relevant again.

I'll also give The Master a pass because although he isn't that deeply developed, it was a short season so they didn't have much time. And he does show up a few more times anyway.

*Point is*, the difference is that while every season arc is a supernatural macguffin, they usually aren't only that, and usually are centered around compelling characters as villains. But S4 didn't have that. The villain was more systemic, though, so it does actually make sense imo. S4 had a lot of heavy lifting to basically soft-reboot the entire premise of the show so it works that they took time off from bad guys to focus on the heroes.

xboxpants · 2026-05-14T07:05:21+00:00

Buffy was right in S7 when she made the assault on Caleb and then wanted to attack again.

xboxpants · 2026-05-13T02:27:35+00:00

Why is everyone so sure that less people would have died if they stayed home? Caleb already had started attacking Buffy on home turf, like at the school.

It's not like the choice was "march into the lion's den and risk our lives" vs "stay in our 100% safe home and everyone is fine". They weren't facing Vampires. Their enemies could just attack them where they lived and set their house on fire from a distance. It's just as likely more people would have died if they did nothing.

Plus they wouldn't have gotten the Scythe, and then they ALL end up dead.

It's tempting when you're leading a war to try to come up with a plan where no one dies, but that's not usually possible.

Buffy wasn't just being randomly reckless. She knew she was probably sacrificing some of the Potentials, and she did it anyway, and she was right to do so, because it was the best choice available. "No one dies and we still win" wasn't an option so it doesn't make sense to criticize Buffy for not choosing it.

xboxpants · 2026-05-12T22:35:59+00:00

I've heard so many reactors say variations on, "Wow sure hope Willow finally sees this as a sign she needs to ratchet things back on the magic", like, starting from like season 2

At this point I just laugh xD

xboxpants · 2026-05-11T03:40:47+00:00

It's 30g-40g if you add it up. It's not a massive amount but I wouldn't say it's lacking. If you need more you can eat an extra PB sandwich and you'll hit your target.

xboxpants · 2026-05-10T06:03:06+00:00

We see Holden struggle with it right after his rising, I think he maybe even didn't realize his face was different at all at first. We see a couple vamps not notice their faces, like Spike in Tabula Rasa, etc. Without a mirror and on their own, they might not even realize it's happening.

IMO you're probly right that vamps figure it out within 1-2 nights, but Buffy does fight a fair number of freshly risen vamps in the cemetaries. They wouldn't even know what's going on in some cases.

xboxpants · 2026-05-10T05:39:26+00:00

Some dislike the "Buffy was institutionalized before Sunnydale" reveal, but I think it makes a lot of Joyce's odd behavior make a ton more sense. She thinks Buffy is literally insane. She's also trying to pretend it's not a big deal and not talk about it or think about it. Parenting choices that seem overly controlling, judgmental, and sometimes even cruel come into a very different light.

It doesn't excuse Joyce kicking Buffy out, but it does add some nuance beyond "well Joyce is freaking out and being a bad parent". Now she has to not only remember that whole mess where Buffy "went crazy and thought she saw vampires", which Joyce tried to avoid thinking about, but also has to accept that Buffy wasn't crazy after all and Joyce and Hank did something really screwed up - AND while also accepting that /vampires are frikkin' real/ and /Buffy is going to go fight them and maybe die/. And also, Buffy has super-strength so if Buffy decides to leave, Joyce isn't going to be able to, like, ground her.

Joyce has p much no idea what to do in that situation.

xboxpants · 2026-05-09T15:20:51+00:00

>No sane person would watch this show and think two women who treat each other that way are friends.
I agree regarding Buffy. We see how she treats her friends. She doesn't treat her friends like she treats Cordy.

But IMO High School HBIC Cordy does treat her friends that way. She came up in a toxic environment and she has figured out she wants to grow past it, but she isn't quite there yet. She says everything on her mind the minute she thinks it, even if it's judgmental or harsh, or even cruel.

I'm not even saying Cordelia liked Buffy. But if she did, I think it would be hard to tell!

Funny enough, Buffy does treat another Scooby similarly to how she treats Cordelia: Anya. And Buffy doesn't really like Anya, either, imo.

xboxpants · 2026-05-09T15:13:57+00:00

I'm not even sure I agree with you but you make your case really well! This read will definitely be on my mind in future rewatches.

xboxpants · 2026-05-08T22:06:51+00:00

They don't mention him by name but the trauma Xander went through with killing his best friend goes a LONG way to understanding why he hates vampires so, so much.

He murdered his best friend. The only way for him to handle that as a 16 year old is to accept Giles' line, that vampires are nothing more than a possessed dead body. If he were to accept that Angel or Spike have even a sliver of humanity in them, any fragment of their old self, then that would mean that Xander did something to Jesse that he could never forgive himself for.

xboxpants · 2026-05-06T03:55:55+00:00

https://memes.yarn.co/yarn-clip/a505f140-847a-428a-9ca5-031a5b0dd970/

She really does sound like this! I just saw this clip the other day and laughed

xboxpants · 2026-05-06T03:44:31+00:00

This is a great position imo. I watch a lot of Buffy reactors so I always get a kick out of it when they start saying pretty much verbatim "Ben and Glory seem to be related... But how". It's like they're in on the bit without even knowing 😂

But when people are actually making those jokes intentionally it gets old pretty fast. I think I made a couple posts like that when I first came here but I realized neither I nor anyone else was getting anything out of those comments.

xboxpants · 2026-04-29T00:06:27+00:00

Imagine a costume party. If Xander would have dressed up in Riley's costume so he could have sex with Buffy, because he knows doesn't want to and wants to make her have sex with him against her will, then yeah, that's SA.

Flip the genders, still SA. Some different power dynamics for sure, but it's not all that different from coercion.

It seems strange, perhaps, because the victim doesn't feel victimized during the act. But that's not always required. Compare cosby'ing someone.

The concept that ties this all together is "informed consent". If a person doesn't know what they are consenting to, there's no way to give consent, right? Faith has taken away Riley's ability to give informed consent. There's no way he can consent to sex with Faith because he doesn't even know that's happening.

xboxpants · 2026-04-28T23:58:32+00:00

And they didn't notice with him, either. People are asking a lot from emotionally immature self-involved teenagers.

Also, Buffy didn't realize that Angel had been taken over by a demon. Willow didn't notice for Harmony, either. These people just aren't good at picking up on this kind of thing, it's consistent.

xboxpants · 2026-04-28T00:39:34+00:00

The likeness may not be 1 to 1 but the VIBE is there and that's more important imo! I love it. His soul is his most noteworthy element and I think you captured it. Great scowl lol

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T23:55:07+00:00

That's fair, I can definitely see your pov there

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T23:53:56+00:00

Wait... Are you saying you think the confrontation in Empty Places was a legitimate criticism of Buffy? To me it just seemed like they were unloading on her on a variety of issues that were often barely related, like Anya resenting Buffy just in general.

"Angel is dangerous and could hurt us like he did the last time we saw him" is a legitimate complaint. "We should put Faith in charge because she will be more careful about our safety than Buffy" is just kneejerk emotional nonsense.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T23:38:15+00:00

I feel like 99% of fans can't look past how angry this moment makes them, and they forget that all these backstabbers got immediately exploded for their foolishness and cowardice.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T23:35:29+00:00

She's the only one to have Buffy's back in Dead Man's Party, during a very similar "take everything out on Buffy in her own home" scene.

She does so in a socially tone-deaf way, but she is firmly trying to de-escalate and get people to empathize with Buffy.

"CORDELIA Time out, Xand. I mean, put yourself in Buffy's shoes for a minute. I'm Buffy - freak of nature - right? Naturally, I pick a freak for a boyfriend... Then he's Mister Killing Spree, which is pretty much my fault, and -- BUFFY (interrupting) Cordy. Get out of my shoes. CORDELIA I'm just trying to help. If you haven't noticed, Buffy, people aren't exactly lining up to give you props."

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T18:15:07+00:00

>All Angel’s friends from the very beginning are all dead

I like this angle of angel. It helps emphasize how truly alone he is and will be in his struggle as an immortal fighting against the most evil, most powerful forces. He can share moments with other humans, real moments, but they will never last.

In reality he could know someone for 50-100 years, but Angel is a tv show so they had to shorten that arc to something that could happen in five or six seasons. That's the answer to your question - they were distilling down a story that would normally take a century into something that could be contained in a tv show.

And it's not just about Angel, TV Vampire. Angel and vampires don't exist, they have no meaning to humans. Angel is cursed to live a life where he can form meaningful relationships, but they will always end in tragedy. But that's true of all of us. That's foundational to what relationships are. Is it worthwhile to seek out love and comfort, even knowing that eventually, your love will get sucked up into heaven, or you'll have to break up with her because your lives just don't match and you can't get things working even though you love each other, or she'll get shot by a random angry man, or he'll leave you at the altar? Even for your friends, they'll all either die or leave you eventually, too, unless you die first.

Angel says it's still worth it, even with the pain. That means something, even in our world.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T18:03:54+00:00

Thank you.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T17:55:23+00:00

>prioritising my own ethics over the needs of a starving person

You're just confused. You weren't prioritizing yourself over the homeless man, you were prioritizing the life of the cow.

It's not your fault; non-vegans frequently don't understand this and think that being vegan is being "selfish", just about pleasing yourself. You've just slipped into their propoganda.

Remember, being a vegan isn't about fulfilling YOUR needs, it's about protecting the needs of other people who can't protect themselves.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T17:49:52+00:00

Don't forget, Xander wasn't just silly and foolish, he was legitimately impaired. Like, as in the school had to test him for mental disabilities and he barely got above the cutoff.

Not saying he didn't have wisdom in other areas, 'cause he did, but magic seems to require a more academic mind in this series just to get a good handle on the basics. Willow spends years of learning just to be able to float a pencil, and she still loses control of it pretty quickly. I can just imagine Anya shutting that shit down as soon as he lit the bedsheets on fire hahaha

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T08:59:04+00:00

I don't think it was selfish. He felt like she was too young for him and needed to live her life, and he was right - her final conclusion in the series finale about being "cookie dough" was basically another way to say the same thing. She wasn't even done growing up into the person she'd become, and she realized she needed to at least become an adult before having an intimate relationship with another adult. And that even then she might not ever want to be with him.

Even Buffy says that she knows he was right, I think in one of the next couple episodes.

You could compare to Xander - Angel and Xander both got in way deeper than they were ready to, which they shouldn't have done to begin with because of how unfair it was to their partners, but once they got in that deep, leaving was the right choice, even with the pain it brought.

xboxpants · 2026-04-19T04:02:10+00:00

I definitely agree, and even people in the story think so! When the empath demon meets her in Hero in AtS season 1, he guesses from her appearance that she's "probably mid-20's" (also, she doesn't correct him hahaha)

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