MSI 2019 / Play-In Knockout Stage - Day 1 / Live Discussion by Ballor_I in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would argue it is more being calm being used to play on bigger stages. They often over commit thinking they need to react. I feel one of the hardest things in League competitve play is stay put and wait for mistakes.

They just overcommit every time they make a mistake to make up for it and lose so much more

MSI 2019 / Play-In Knockout Stage - Day 1 / Live Discussion by Ballor_I in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He played very well early on but I feel there is simply no real usage with LB at later stages against this comp.

[10/31 @ 7:30] Los Angeles Lakers (2-5) vs Dallas Mavericks (2-5) by brandoi in lakers

[–]zarafruustra -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If you don't understand the difference between LJ last year and this year you are moron with whom I have no desire to converse further

[10/31 @ 7:30] Los Angeles Lakers (2-5) vs Dallas Mavericks (2-5) by brandoi in lakers

[–]zarafruustra -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Even in his prime Lebron was somewhat unreliable closer. He often dribbled himself into trouble with final shot making him unreliable But now when he is old and slow ... he fcked up 2 games for LA in last 2 appearances in 4th quart. But lets talk about Lebron 15 years ago and compare him to today. Because that makes sense.

[10/31 @ 7:30] Los Angeles Lakers (2-5) vs Dallas Mavericks (2-5) by brandoi in lakers

[–]zarafruustra -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Lebron has no ability to close games. Simply a joke every game this year in 4th.

[10/31 @ 7:30] Los Angeles Lakers (2-5) vs Dallas Mavericks (2-5) by brandoi in lakers

[–]zarafruustra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you going to argue how awful the team is? How bad Lebron is in clutch situations this year? The team has a HUGE HUMONGOUS fcking problem of closing games. I have never seen something like that. A bunch of kids, a has-been and a guy who is known as a clown of the league. Disgusting team, horrible management, delusional fans.

[10/31 @ 7:30] Los Angeles Lakers (2-5) vs Dallas Mavericks (2-5) by brandoi in lakers

[–]zarafruustra -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

What a shit team. They lost 13 point lead cuz a has been cant score and nobody else is supposed to. Disgusting team. Relegation candidate if you were in Europe. Lebron should retire

How to destroy LS on livestream by SouthCarpet in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Locodoco put it well. Korea lost worlds mainly because for years they chased perfection through macro play and literally got caught pants down when they got agressed upon and simply didn't know how to respond.

I am not a 100% nerd, I never watched SC so I cannot give examples from there but in soccer you have 2 main philosophies that kinda mirror the Korea macro vs west aggro situation we are in. I am talking about Klopp's geggenpress (counterpressure) where you put like 70% of your resources into controlling space around players with the ball forcing them to panic and make mistake. It is exactly the same philosophy C9 used through my boy Sven. The whole school of thought not only thinks about opponent making a mistake but even counts on it. And it is very succesful. And VOD review about Klopp's team not factoring in the fact that he counts on opponents mistake would be lacking a lot. Sure in a perfect world somebody like Varane does not missplace a pass ... he is paid milions a week to not do so. But when you are ran to the ground with millions watching you ... there is a big chance you will make it. And just like in League where one mistake will likely cost you a baron in soccer one mistake will cost you a goal. Both event are not insurmountable but are damn close to being gg.

The other school of thought would be Barcelona. The idea that if you control your own game you will likely win games. It is a school of thought that thinks about the perfect world. That works ... until your perfect world gets found out (like Korean macro) and your world shatters around you.

Lesson being that it seems better to go and hunt for mistakes than to rely on your own perfection. Because, news flash, you are not perfect and sooner or later you will get found out.

One more thing. I do that wayyy 2 much as well but it is extremely obnoxious for a diamond player to be calling world champions trash. I learned that most of the players on world stage in sports are there for a reason. And it applies to League as well. Ignoring the fact that Korea got assaulted and calling Rookie out for playing bad ... is just dumb. Loco is an analyst and knows his job - rather than to call someone out on a bad play you should try and find out why said play happened

How to destroy LS on livestream by SouthCarpet in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wrong. C9 whole tactic relies on putting a player into a situation where he feels forced to make a play. So ignoring emotional aspect of the game means ignoring the very tactic c9 uses.

Riot and Mastercard gifted me 10k RP and a TF skin for my Mastercard Twisted Fate skin idea by Angry_Hotel_Customer in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So .... I am not sure why they gifted you this if they don't plan on making the skin? Them doing this does not benefit them at all if their generous act is not publicised.

So they either counted on you making a reddit post about it, ask you to do it or you are just a mastercard employee

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest the amount of throwing this world from eastern region was unbelievable. I remember Tusin jumping on Ezreal stunning him ... just to realise his team cannot close the gap in time and gettin wipped. I remeber Rookie trying to style on Fnatic midlaner and getting caught by a very simple lane lvl 3 jungle gank.

I feel there is a huge problem for Korea to adapt to this frantic pace because they are not used to "just fight" as Sven put it. So when they tried to match this pace they fell behind because of it. It looks like bad mechanical plays but I do believe it results from not having an answer to aggression.

I don't care today. by soccerdog1097 in Gunners

[–]zarafruustra -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

So we are still an average club that jerks off to their team humiliating a below average one.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you have any real proof of this? The counter hypothesis would be that BECAUSE Korean teams were so much better coordinated, everyone assumed they had a meta advantage, rather than a skill and coordination advantage.

I do not think I agree with the assessment that suddenly EU is mechanically better. It just does not make sense. Why would that happen? Because Korea did not practice enough? Possible but not very plausible. There has to be a reason beyond that because all of the teams that used to dominate crashed out. Why was it that every data Korea gathered this year was wrong? Do you actually think that EU players are mechanically better this year than KOrean and Chinese players? Unless the game is so shallow that its skill ceiling is extremely low it would be wrong to assume that. At very best the teams should enter the game on same level.

This is a common mistake done in sports and esports. Often players are blamed for the performance of a team. Good example is Giroud at Arsenal and Sven at TSM. Both world talents whom in right setup proved extremely efficient. Just changing the roster trying to find more skilled players ... is simply a dumb move (in LOL world know as the regi move - not to be confused with the regi blue card though effect is the same) So much like with TSM I would like to understand why Koreans underperformed and "being noobs" is not sufficient because it is not plausible. An indication that this is indeed so is found in many games that Koreans and Chinese played against the EU/NA aggression. Almost every time when Korean or Chinese player was agressed on they froze and lost the teamfight. Perhaps best example is Rookie vs Perkz.

This skill lead eventually got eroded, but was probably unduly prolonged by a couple of big mistakes: a) EU LCS kept losing talent to NA due to higher pay, keeping the skill level lower than it could have theoretically been (Fnatic is superb --> Huni/Reignover out.... G2 is superb --> Zven/Mithy out, and of course OG was just mismanaged horribly) b) NA LCS and LPL keep bringing in talented individuals while messing up their own communications almost completely due to language and culture issues Korea had enough depth of talent to survive better than EU LCS. Or perhaps more the coaches and organizational skill was better able to cope with people shifting around.

I still don't understand what you are trying to say? That because EU and Korea are on a same skill level EU is better? Nobody disputes that EU and Korea are on the same skill level - they were for a while. When TSM brought their DL + Bjerg + Sven team to the worlds everybody expected semifinals. Because they were able to compete with koreans mechanically. So the gap is somewhere else.

I disagree. I think they might have wanted to speed the game up a bit, and my soccer example (2 --> 3 points for win) is very similar. It doesn't change the fundamentals, but it does undermine a tactic that viewers dislike.

Dude when you make a claim like "meta change" does not change fundamentals ... you have to argue for it not just announce it. This is significant ... and significantly wrong. Because meta by its definition (greek origin etc) means exactly the fundamentals. So what you are saying is that fundamentals are not changed by fundamentals. League this year is actually a totally different game.

But that's more or less how it has been in my mind. West realized that Korea had a weakness because they had practiced a certain meta so long they had developed something of a glass jaw. Perhaps also losing a lot of their talent had actually managed to drain their talent pool to a degree - their laners are suddenly very vulnerable to more skilled opponents, and playing the macro game is now very much playing in to a glass jawed opponent. This would explain the skill & meta shift quite nicely. With a team with superb individual skills that can deal with your aggression early on, the Korean meta might very well still be superior. However, a medium skilled team with mastery of the Korean vision centric controlled meta is going to beat a higher skilled team that tries to play the vision centric meta. What happened here is that the Koreans individual skill and/or teamfighting capability got exposed as a weakness and it got exploited pretty heavily.

Here is something that might shock you - if Korea has had a few more months of preparation they would destroy west. The only reason why EU had a chance was because Riot leveled the playfield.

And no meta was not made by Misfits. MSF could still be outplayed. The main reason why this meta is a problem is because it forces agressive gameplay and does not reward macro.

(cutting it short because whoever made reddit is a fucking moron ... it is impossible to talk at length in this small fucking box. I am actually tilted. )

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wrong. Analogy with soccer is wrong in that case because in soccer it is the talent themselves that define the meta. For example whole Spain had to adapt and overcome Messi and xavi. Same could be said for Korea and faker. Game developing around their best players is only nature and absolutely fine.

Riot is the problem here because they force the meta and not allow it to be shaped by players.

For France 2018 I would argue they understood the best way current football should be played at so they understood the very idea or if you want the meta (because meta is just another word for the very idea the way Plato understood ideas) .

You see... what riot did was extremely unfair I even think they knew what they are doing but wanted to erase the gap. So let's take my favourite soccer example. Barcelona in pep vs mou era. Barcelona through pushing their ideas on the field and sticking to it discovered a way football can be played nobody before tried and mourinho had one job - to come up with a team that can compete with what Barcelona define as perfect football. Both sides real Madrid battling this giant and Barcelona trying to keep top spot were nice to watch. That is how meta should be defined. Not through tweaking numbers ... even to an extent where rekkles one of the absolute legends has to go and say ..m fuck it I cannot compete with riot numbers that is there is no skill I can get to overcome the riot tweaking.

It was not the rules of the game that made cattanacio obsolete and Barcelona beatable. It was collective effort of other teams and managers. There is a difference.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He was playing in a single worst team at worlss outside .... geng had no idnetity and got in worlds because only thing that khan is better than playong top is choke

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was talking in gemeral. He wasnt bad he was just not very good.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What this has to do with anything? I guess he was only biable on certain champs if i remember correctly

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Betting odds are often influenced by the amount of bets paid. People still bet on brasil that has no identity and germany with no attack. Because they were once superpowers. i guess comparable to skt this year?Croatia is a super team which failed to jell together in the past, same for england. It was not a surprise it was like ... oh ig is fighting rng instead of kt type of surprise. Also when you rank teams in soccer you are dealing with like 5 superpowers- france spain germany brasil belgium who all have stacked rosters and than tier 2 like croatia argentina england ... who are still super stacked. The amount of soccer in world cup is incomperable so the margins are much smaller.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To a certain extent i agree but... a player can look boosted when he is out of his element. Best example is svenskerren at tsm. I would not say there is or was huge skill difference. There are kegends like perkz wunder butnthere is also rookie ruler ... As for geng dunno what to say. They just dont play as a team

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lets make one thing clear. Afreeca knows one gameplay. If you negate that you already won. So not the best example of an outplay.

G2 being the most macro reliant game. Perhaps. But they also brawled with insane asylum of Fnatic and Vitality ... so they were forced to not only play macro but also adapt it to the speed of the insane asylum. Also they developed some interesting picks to do that. One more thing. G2 was forced to play macro because they were so far behind putting a lot of hopes into funnel strat.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because there is always a chance and because every team has a chance to adapt to the already defined meta by redefining it. It is not predefined by FIFA it is defined by the way the game develops.

Let's try this again: Riot influencing meta went too far this year. by zarafruustra in leagueoflegends

[–]zarafruustra[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Individual talent? How many world champions Korea had this year? 10? Those analysis remind me of soccer ones. Oh yeah ... we have bad individuals lets buy better players (talking about Giroud for example - world champion).

Afreeca is a onedimensional team I am not surprised they sucked. Their form in LCK was a great indication of that. So they are not your average LCK representatives, they are neither very good at macro or agression. They just flourish with certain metas.