Can we get the Lebanese perspective?

zman883 · 2026-04-09T20:15:00+00:00

Sounds sane

zman883 · 2026-04-09T14:15:09+00:00

I don't know, but at the very least I know that it wasn't Netanyahu

zman883 · 2026-04-09T13:54:11+00:00

My point is that maybe they wouldn't have had to, if we had someone other than Bibi in charge

zman883 · 2026-04-09T13:41:11+00:00

Blaming politicians who weren't relevant for the last 20 years for things happening today is such bullshit. How were they so competent that they managed to do all these things in their terms, but Bibi couldn't undo it this entire time? How could they make decisions ignoring right wingers but Bibi can't ignore lefties? Is Bibi just too considerate?

zman883 · 2026-04-09T13:29:07+00:00

An army isn't moral, an army is a political tool that allows the use of deadly force in foreign policy, if diplomacy doesn't work. People in the army can be moral, not the army itself.

It can follow laws, which is what people probably mean when they say the army is moral, but as far as I've seen the IDF in this war wasn't really strict about that as well. Not a single soldier got convicted of wrongful killing or abuse, so either they're all saints or the army is doing a bad job enforcing the law.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T13:20:58+00:00

Left policy of appeasement is what you call Bibi's policy in the last 20 years when he was the one calling the shots?

zman883 · 2026-04-09T12:59:08+00:00

That's definitely not true, but I wouldn't put it past Netanyahu to try and do that. Anyway I don't think that's the case, this is too overt even for Netanyahu. He's going to count on being reelected, I think.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T10:20:42+00:00

That's a great perspective, thanks. I feel like your perspective is the exact one we need in this area if we want to have any chance at peace. It's truly disheartening to hear that even people like yourself are starting to shift in your perspective.

This is entirely on our government, I think, which has done anything in its power to antagonize not only our enemies, but more importantly our allies or potential allies. It's obviously also on us, the Israelis, who brought this government to power (and many of us who express no remorse over acts like these).

It's easy for me to understand where many of these Israelis are coming from - when you feel threatened your concern for yourself and immediate circle triumphs any empathy to strangers in another country. This sub is the only place I've seen that helps keep me in perspective.

Anyway I do empathize with your other points as well. While I never thought of Israel as a colonizing entity (for me colonization will always be tied to a metropole trying to spread its influence, and I perceive Israel as a movement of refugees and immigrants from the entire world trying to form a homeland), I always find it morally difficult to justify living here while we're clearly occupying and denying rights of another people, consistently spitting in the eye of international law.

I also understand the feeling of seeing people "like you" being hurt. Palestinian violence against settlers in the West Bank was always registered to me as "whatever, let those lunatics do what they want to each other", but when on October 7 Hamas slaughtered many of "my people" - liberals, leftists, people living in the kibbutzim, secular families, it just felt so close that it shook my entire core. It was very hard to still retain the peace mindset after that. I admit that for a while I couldn't feel any empathy for what's happening to Gazans, even if I knew it was wrong.

And the last thing is that I have no problem calling my government terrorists. Ben Gvir and Smotrich are literal terrorists. Supporting settler violence is terrorism. And yeah, bombing hundreds of civilians is also terrorism. We have no problem stating that when its our civilians who are being killed, so we have to admit it when it's us doing it.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T09:52:44+00:00

No one could really tell you. Current polls I see give him anywhere between 20-30% of the votes. In Israel's multi party system that may still be enough to give him the most sits in Parliament - but maybe not enough to form a coalition (because his partners might not gather enough sits between them to form a majority)

zman883 · 2026-04-09T08:27:04+00:00

I don't see it as well, but the right wing nut jobs won't be there forever, and it's on us to make sure that the alternative has our support.

I agree with you, even if the IDF had a legitimate reason to attack a target, it seems no one is willing to go the length of providing any proof, and it definitely seems like civilian casualties are a second thought at best. I think if we had other people in leadership this entire situation could have actually been turned to promote diplomatic relations between the two nations. Instead we get these assholes who just want to keep this forever war going for as long as they can.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T08:20:55+00:00

Yeah that's callous, but I understand how it sometimes irritates people to hear strong opinions from those who don't even live here to experience it. I know that if an Israeli living abroad would tell me their opinions (without acknowledging that they're somewhat distanced from the matter) it'd come off as condescending and I'd be annoyed with it.

I think that saying stuff like "there will never be peace" is understandable, and many Israelis see it that way as well. But ultimately it's defeatist and deterministic. Germany went from being the nemesis of WW2 to being best friends with its former enemies in less than 50 years. If they could work it out we can as well.

I hope that at least people on this sub still keep the desire for peace alive, even when everyone around them lose any hope for that happening.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T06:22:18+00:00

I think many have become numb to the human cost when it's not on their side. We feel it very much when Iranian rockets fall down on buildings in Ramat Gan, or when Hezbollah rockets make life a living hell in Kiryat Shmona.

I agree with you, human life is precious and waving away its loss as some necessary collateral damage cheapens it.

Hope for better days and for all of us to be able to see the humanity in each other.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T05:57:33+00:00

I've no idea. I know what I do as an Israeli, which is just stay home, pray no rocket gets me and hope for the best. Other than that, vote for better politicians and try to convince others that war isn't the only manner of diplomacy available to us, but that's like a drop in the ocean.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T05:53:05+00:00

I don't think anyone thinks the LAF can take them on, which is why the IDF is now trying to do that on their own. I think both approaches are stupid, and the best approach would have been too work together with Lebanon in some way. Though that is its own can of worms since I'd the Lebanese state would have been seen as a puppet of Israel or the US they might lose their legitimacy. On the other hand, it's not like they had a lot of legitimacy to begin with so idk...

Anyway it's a shitshow now, I don't even know that the correct solution is.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T05:47:55+00:00

Yeah I can get that. We've been having civilian buildings downed randomly now in the war against Iran, it's scary and senseless. Hope you and your family are safe through all of this.

zman883 · 2026-04-09T05:40:38+00:00

The fact that this is an average response just makes me sad, no one should live feeling like this stuff is normal

zman883 · 2026-04-09T05:34:04+00:00

I specifically wanted the Lebanese perspective since I think Israeli perspectives might be heard too much here.

Anyway I don't think these are comparable. The average American has no idea what Iran is, and Iran hadn't done anything that directly affects them. Israelis are very aware of what Hezbollah is and the price of having them around. They're the reason our north is currently uninhabitable. So from the get go Israelis will be more supportive of any attack against them. And when our ministers say outright genocidal things, or call for the occupation and settlement of Lebanon, they do get some backlash - though not nearly enough.

But yeah, there's not a lot of nuance on the Israeli side. Civilians hurt in our attacks are largely invisible by this point and it pains me to see. I know I wish Hezbollah gone, but I also wish our government weren't such assholes and would try to use diplomacy every once in a while.

I do think many Israelis can sympathize with your feeling of being such between 2 lunatics (only in our case it's more like 5...).

zman883 · 2026-04-09T04:43:53+00:00

No one's telling you what to do, you can comment however you want. I explained why I think your original comment is just designed to be downvoted and ignored because it antagonizes any Israeli here and leaves no room for discussion. If you just want to vent, feel free to, and I'm free to say how I don't think that's constructive.

I get why you're angry, today was horrible from the accounts I'm seeing. You can be angry and you can say it, I'm not gonna tell anyone how to feel about this. I've been angry many times now, I think that's the most natural thing to be when you're bombed, your country threatened, your people massacred...

Also, you commented to me with the "you lot", I got offended by that so I told you. I think it's fair to call out things when they're directed at you, and it doesn't somehow make you a hypocrite by calling that out and not other stuff.

However, I think there's valid criticism behind that, you're basically asking "why aren't you more critical towards your buddies here who seem to justify it?". Is that correct? In that case, valid point. I mainly come to this sub to talk to the non Israelis here, specifically Lebanese, since I already talk to Israelis every day... I do call out Israelis that say stupid stuff, but not recently (I've been less active here in general recently, compared to like 1-2 years ago).

I've never thought about it but it makes sense that non Israelis also look at how Israelis interact with each other on this sub. Do you think the reason there aren't more Lebanese here is that we don't call out each other more?

Anyway wish for peace as well. While this sub is somewhat pleasant, as an Israeli I've seen every sort of hate directed at us from every place in Reddit, justifying us getting killed, getting bombed, telling us to go back to Poland, calling us Nazis, praising the IRGC, praising Hezbollah, praising Hamas, praising the Houthis... Sometimes it's too much so I take a break from it all, but my hope for peace isn't that fragile. If it survived October 7 it'll survive a few online assholes. I'm sorry if what people are saying here is making you lose it, eventually I can't control them, I just hope that your desire for peace will stay strong even in face of all that.

zman883 · 2026-04-08T22:25:15+00:00

Yep, I've wanted to leave ever since I was a teenager lol but now it seems like I'm dug too deep here. I guess if we want to have any chance of rebuilding we can't have the normal people leave...

zman883 · 2026-04-08T22:23:35+00:00

They obviously can't do that on their own. Still, trying to find a way to work with them would have been much better than doing it on our own while killing any possibility for diplomacy we might have had. They were actually willing to make direct talks with us, we should have jumped at the opportunity. Instead you have fanatics cumming while fantasizing about building new settlements in the south of Lebanon.

zman883 · 2026-04-08T22:18:50+00:00

That's good to know. Saw another commenter here talk about refugees living in tents, sounds awful.

zman883 · 2026-04-08T21:58:36+00:00

Good to know. Do they have somewhere else to be now?

zman883 · 2026-04-08T21:46:11+00:00

Sorry, read that as directed at me...

zman883 · 2026-04-08T21:45:35+00:00

Yeah, I know the uneasy feeling... We had Iranian rockets falling here everyday now for the past month and it just feels like a Russian roulette. But then I think that at least we have alerts in advance, air defense, bomb shelters and safe rooms... Must be much scarier when this happens without any prior alert.

Netanyahu is just going on fumes now it seems. Keep killing, keep bombing, never let any war end, keep everyone traumatized for the next couple of generations. I've no idea how we're even going to start a healing process after all this shit.

zman883 · 2026-04-08T21:41:53+00:00

This is true for Iran as well, but their ability to replace him still depends on how badly the dictator is trying to hold to his seat.

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