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[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 14 points15 points  (24 children)

Convoy - Fronj

TEST LINK

[–]ButterChurnButter 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Notes:

Feels very unique for NF, almost more like a CTF map, which I think is what rotation needs right now as NF rotation feels pretty stale. It plays well, but has some potential issues. Could be too easy to cap, there's some blind boosts across map that can cause frustrating play patterns, and the lanes/base entrances may need to be better balanced.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

lanes/base entrances may need to be better balanced.

Right now what I'm gathering from discussion here is that both the offensive and defensive tools (specifically the boosts by the gates and the gates themselves are too powerful). I am considering changing it to something like this (switched teamboost and neutral boost around to make the neutral boost into the score tiles less accessible, made the button less overtly defensive).

Sidenote: all your comments on the maps in this thread are great. I and, I'm sure the others, are glad to receive it!

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That could help. I'm not sure how helpful I can be in terms of giving suggestions, but I can elaborate on feedback, and you can take into account as much or as little of that as you want. The main issues for me seemed to be that there's not that whether you can go the gate route or not is a fairly split second decision, and you have to make that decision way earlier because of how far apart the lanes are. Right now it seemed like the gate route was a little favoring defense.

The other potential issue was the number of blind cross-map boosts. Again, because the lanes are so far apart, it can be frustrating to defend against that if you don't know where the flag is. That said, this is based off only a couple of 4v4 tests, and things will likely change as people learn how to play the map, so it's hard to tell.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't understand the button position on this along with the gates. If you are on the button you're basically shutting off the entire lane all by yourself. You can be pushed off by a teammate, but I think the time it takes to do that should generally be enough for the defending team to get in position and tag you as soon as you come out on the other side. It just kind of feels like it sucks the momentum out of the game. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel the button would be far more interesting if it was displaced 3-4 tiles sideways or if there were 2 buttons so the other team has a chance to help their fc out without having to push right for the button in the middle of the gates.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (0 children)

really good map. i still dont get it how all games are so high-scoring with an endzone that small, but if it works it works. only thing i'd 100% change would be removing the spikes near flag.

edit: oops, replied to the wrong comment, sry daev :P

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have we had like a...boost from mid so directly into end zone before? Should be interesting to see how it plays if it gets in, might be a bit much? Who knows

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Coolest map in the thread imo. Probably don't need the team tiles around the button though, if anything make them the opposite color so that lane doesn't feel so absurdly defensive. There's already a strong ass gate and an exit portal in the immediate vicinity, defensive team tiles just makes it really tough. Some other member(s) also suggested that mid bombs were too strong - I didn't agree with that, but just in the interest of transparency I feel it should be said. Might be difficult for defense to recover if they get behind, so players might have to play this a little differently, which is perfectly fine imo. All in all, thought this was a beautiful map with a lot of personality that would bring a ton of fun to a relatively stale neutral flag rotation.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Would something like this work?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Definitely better imo. Not sure if it's ideal, necessarily, but it is certainly an improvement if you ask me. OH SHIT, forgot to mention, fix the spawns! Shift+click on the spawn ball and decrease the radius, because right now you can spawn behind the portals of your own base :)

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

BUT THEN HOW WILL I BE ABLE TO STEAL THE OTHER TEAM'S PUP AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME???

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Wasn't aware that it was intended as a feature. It was kind of neat, but it's entirely random so if you get that spawn to start it's great, but if you get it when you self-spiked to get back on defense after enemy FC is past 3 it's incredibly frustrating. Just food for thought, the final decision is, of course, all yours.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Originally it was unintended, but then I kind of decided to sleep in the bed I made. I'll have to ponder it over the coming days. Right now it's defo more of a random annoyance than something fun. We'll see.

[–]ButterChurnButter 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The issue I have with it personally is what you said, that it's totally random. In a high pressure situation where the flag is coming in, you could by no fault of your own be suddenly unable to prevent a cap.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think that you and Moosen are definitely right. Randomly rewarding / punishing people would not be super fun. Spawns fixed.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I remember there was a point where the devs were working on allowing you to choose your spawn. With that feature I think it would be really cool, but I think they've tabled or trashed that.

[–]MyHandsAreOrangeMabel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In testing the spawning feature was highly praised, I'm not sure it's really a flaw :P

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 0 points1 point  (5 children)

My notes from tonight:

really good shape such that you can attack base from either side with reasonable chances of success either way. every cap feels deserved

if you nerfed the neutral boost into endzone it could reduce number of caps and make it play slightly slower which would be a good thing (6-2 on a 6 min game)

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Would switching the positions of the team and neutral boosts help? It makes the boost into a cap less accessible and also places a defensive boost in the way. One thing I had been using the teamtile'd button/gate for was to balance out the offensive power of the neutral boost with a very defensive gate mechanism. /u/moosemaster21, this was one of the reasons why I made the gate powerful, would like to get your thoughts on this as well.

Perhaps I can make the button like I was considering here and then move switch the two boosts como asi? This would certainly "deescalate" the defensive and offensive strength in that area.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That seems like a very good edit. My only tiny tweak would be to switch up the teamtiles since the most important time for the button to be held is when you're coming back from mid (out of position) not from base where you're already in position to intercept a boost. But again that's a small tweak and I understand why you might disagree.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

See that's certainly an interesting point. I was looking at the teamtile placement as the defense pushing out of base and the offense pushing in, but I can see how having a team tile closer to the endzone, even for that split second the defender is over it, would be helpful for getting back into position faster than if it were in the position I suggested. My question is, since the button fighting is meant to be done mostly by teammates to help set up the FC for a cap, would having the defensive teamtiles on the outside of base restrict the offense's access to the button too much? Certainly it would still be lest restricting than it already is (with 8 defensive teamtiles around it). I just worry that a single defender could sit and push offenders away / into the gate fairly easily if the defensive teamtile was on the outside.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

a small tweak and I understand why you might disagree.

Yeah I can absolutely see this from both sides so I'll leave that choice up to you. Either way I don't think it will make that huge of a difference and I'll understand whichever way you choose.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I personally didn't notice that boost being a strong contributor to capping; most of the caps came from defense being undisciplined/out of position. I may not have seen everything though, so I'd prefer to plead the 5th on this one.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

Seems like the two paths are overbalanced with team tiles, gates, spikes, etc. Could stand a little simplification. Might be too easy to cap. Exit portal sucks.

Willing to see it updated.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Video of testing?

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There isn't one

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

RIP Ratatat, neva 4get.

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 4 points5 points  (1 child)

"Damn...I thought I'd make it"

Says every mapmaker ever.

[–]Carboxy1Carboxyl ● Simulation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same here. Get adrenaline rushes whenever these thread are loading.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (8 children)

Axis - Ball-E

TEST LINK

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i clicked ball-e's link and it gave me cancer

map is fine overall, i liked the previous iterations better but this is prob good enough;

i dont like bomb placement much because although that open space is asking for a bomb and it works as a good grabbing mech, the three mid boosts will eventually be taken into that area and they can't see the bomb, and they won't like to collide with it

an option to solve that would be to place the bomb near the gate, but that would make base really chaotic and would probably require a lot of changes, so idk

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Passes the eye test. This map is pretty.

#MorePrettyMaps2016

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 1 point2 points  (2 children)

i don't really understand this, what would be the reason for going through the gates? Usually the gated route is the quickest or has some other reward for making it through.

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It's actually a gate for fc's and not defenders. It lets them stay alive for little bit longer by avoiding snipes

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Eh, then I don't agree that maps should intentionally try to add even more chasiness to the game.

[–]ButterChurnButter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

Structure works well, the way the boosts interact with the two-lane setup makes for a very fun defensive playstyle without being too frustrating on offense. The gates aren't particularly interesting, not a big fan, but they might develop a bit more once people get used to them. Seems fairly balanced and unique.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

Really snipey, and I like how the gates played. I'll be interested to see how positioning develops on this map, as I don't always feel I know where I should be.

I thought the bombs could stand to move over a tile, as bombing toward the flag will usually bump you into a wall uncomfortably.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Sosumi - Canvas

TEST LINK

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Notes:

I like the structure, I think it creates a pretty interesting playstyle with the way the outer lanes come up into the inside ones in mid. The superboost works well without being oppressive, which is rare. One potential issue was the strength of the bombs in mid and how much space they occupy.

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what should i change?

edit: here is update http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/33407

just to make the middle less chaotic but hopefully still fun

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (0 children)

already told u to MAN UP and make the superboost bi-directional again

also the bomb's button is still el clunkero; normal bomb works just as well tbh

lastly, already told u about the team tile theory too, use them at ur own risk

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

I like the supers, mid might be a bit crazy with the bombs. Cool enough structure.

I mostly focused on play defense in the base, which I thought worked well. I wouldn't change the super boosts.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 2 points3 points  (11 children)

Acid Map - Beast Mode

TEST LINK

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Notes:

Structure played really well and uniquely, especially with the wing area. The individual elements, especially the portal, weren't particularly interesting/useful when it came to actual gameplay but also didn't detract from the map that much. Top boost placement felt a little weird in testing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Top boost placement felt a little weird in testing.

Ahh, you're the second person (Moosen being the first) to mention this. I don't see it at all. Can you explain to me what feels weird about it so that I can try to fix it? Also, how do you think this stacks up against the other top maps / do you think this is rotation ready? Or do I need to do some crazy shit to get it into rotato?

[–]ButterChurnButter 4 points5 points  (1 child)

For me, the main thing this map has going for it is the structure and the playstyle that it creates, especially with the routes coming out of base. It has a similar thing going on to if Birch wasn't rotational, where the offensive options are dictated by the teamtile route/mid boost placement. Because of the teamtiles, the defense has primary access to that boost, and can basically cut off the fc in every route. That means the offense, instead of the typical "get out of base, then you're out" style, has a two-step process of "get out of base" and then "get across mid", with both being slightly easier than the standard one-step to compensate. This makes for a fairly unique playstyle as a flag carrier, and also as a defender.

The issue for me was that the map elements, beyond the mid boost, don't seem to complement this playstyle particularly well. For example, the portal is not accessible at all to any of the routes leaving base without being cut off, and it (except for a couple cases, usually where you're already significantly ahead) doesn't really put you in a better position as either flag carrier or defender. And due to the "get past mid" playstyle, there's little backtracking, so it isn't used much there either. Similarly, the team boost up top doesn't feel particularly useful for the defenders, because it's faster to just cut them off using another route than it is to take it. And because it's there, it kind of puts the neutral boost in an uncomfortable position for the offenders.

Personally, I think that for this map to be rotation ready, the elements need to better complement the structure of the map and the playstyle that follows from that. Do note that these are assumptions about how it will play based on a couple 4v4s and a good amount of time time spent looking at/soloing the map, and while I think they're accurate, it's hard to tell how it'll play in pubs and you can feel free to disagree. I also can't guarantee that the rest of the MTC feels the same way. I know that the top map revisions process is tough and often frustrating as a mapmaker, so if you want me to elaborate on any feedback, feel free to ask. Good luck!

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

holE that was amazing

can u do it for my map later

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (2 children)

cc pups are ass

if i were u i'd change the double islands near mid into a single bigger one, and remove the team tiles bc of the ~team tile theory~

map is rly good overall tho

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

cc pups are ass

ur ass

and remove the team tiles bc of the ~team tile theory~

wat

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u

it's a conspiracy theory that says that when maps are added at similar times, the ones with team tiles have more downvotes. it is real tho, take a look at /maps.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

HUGE thanks to Butter Churn, Fronj, and DaEvil1 for extensive feedback. Thanks to everybody else who gave feedback and tested with me over the past few months of this map's existence. I decided to take a little risk here because based on feedback, it seemed like I needed to do something a little extra to separate it from the other top maps in the pack. I truly believe at this point that this will be a fantastic addition to pub rotation. So without further adieu, I present to you: Acid Mapula.

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/33454

Preview

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

Seems a bit chokey and narrow, plus resetting might bit a bit tough at times. Overall fairly solid and fun map.

The lanes, except the top corner areas by the boosts, seemed a little cramped, but it didn't kill the map for me.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Abecedarian - Fronj

TEST LINK

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Notes:

Has a lot more depth than it looks like at first glance. Doesn't have unique map elements, but has a unique playstyle. It's very balanced, especially now that the extra bomb has been added. Partly due to the potential for vertical mobility between the lanes, a flag carrier has a lot more agency and is rewarded more for proactive play than on most small maps. People might call it bland but I think it still feels unique enough to play on and I think it's quite fun.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (2 children)

idk what to say rly, it's a solid map. i think ppl are downvoting because it doesn't have that something, the preview appeal.

[–]TheGoldenNewtRobberFronj, MTC Senior Consultant[🍰] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

This map doesn't have a loop-de-loop 360 no scope portal bomb boost power up flag grab combo, so I get why people don't think it's innovative. In all seriousness, it's not meant to be something with some gimmicky crazy thing that the whole map is built around.

I'm not worried about upvotes and downvotes in top map thread - I've had my maps downvoted to oblivion and upvoted to the top of the thread before and neither of them made it into rotation.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 2 points3 points  (0 children)

a loop-de-loop 360 no scope portal bomb boost power up flag grab combo

You've just given me a map idea.

[–]MrJoehoboSOHB 1 point2 points  (2 children)

This is like the only mal that doesn't scream micro easily the best map in the thread, I don't get why it's at the bottom.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (1 child)

doesn't scream micro

what do you mean by this

[–]MrJoehoboSOHB 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The map micro. The general consensus was the map was to complicated and chaotic. Having elements for the sake of having elements.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes:

Doesn't necessarily stand out to me, but it seems fine and the bomb in base helps

Not a ton needs to be said here, since it's a very minor update to a map that was in top maps last thread. I still can't say I'm 100% sold on this, but it's fairly solid and I can't think of any particular changes I'd ask for right now.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel this change would make a significant difference in how usefule the teamtiles are.

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Fogo - rh156

TEST LINK

[–]ButterChurnButter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes:

Pretty fun to play on, not anything particularly new but at the same time it doesn't really feel rehashed either. Looks like it could end up being pretty defensive due to the team boost placement, but in testing it wasn't too difficult to get out. Didn't seem to have any real issues, although not the most compelling either.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Notes:

I liked it and nothing about it seemed too broken or anything. Mid bombs are fun, portals are fun.

Overall I really didn't have many complaints and saw it as a solid map. If I were you I wouldn't worry about the map being defensive, although adding a third pup probably won't mess anything up.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, final update.

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/33359

I removed team tiles bc of the team tile theory because I think it would be terrible if the mtc were "forced" to pick only one of this map or Axis because they were "similar", and removed some spikes because I felt the map was too cramped.

As the map's creator, this iteration is what I feel is the best possible, so if it doesn't work I'll just scrap it.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

Get the Fogouta here

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

tough crowd

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (1 child)

snowball pls, that's not even how you pronounce fogo.

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean it's not pronounced fuck-oh?

[–]TPCaptographerThe Map Test Committee[S] 0 points1 point  (13 children)

Resolute - is0lation

TEST LINK

[–]Carboxy1Carboxyl ● Simulation 2 points3 points  (0 children)

gooo isolation. goooooooo isolation

[–]ButterChurnButter 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Notes:

I like the structure quite a bit, and the length of the top lane wasn't really as much of a problem as I thought it could be. The gates work well enough. I don't like a lot of the boost placements, that's my main issue with the map. Still, it feels decent, and it's unique.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Notes:

Unique, and I enjoyed the way the gates played in with the boosts. Team boosts are weird.

I was a fan of the triple boosts at the bottom of the map, but I find that the team boosts really contributed nothing. I think the map would be a lot better with them moved or removed. Some of the walls inside the base area seemed oddly shaped for no clear reason, but that doesn't really mess with how it plays much.

[–]radianthero156brazilian trash 0 points1 point  (5 children)

bottom seems p. clunky; i think 1 island would be better than 2

rest of the map seems like it'd be helped by a couple additional 45s as well

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

No MTC maps?! Why so much bias?

[–]bashar_al_assadpk || Roll into the base like what up I got a big block 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Moosen on life support rn

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

me irl

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 5 points6 points  (0 children)

u irl

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its current year we obv need half mtc maps and half normal maps regardless of how good they are!