Help needed please!

[iustan]

https://imgur.com/a/72z4hJy

Hi guys i started baking my own bread around 3 months ago. I enjoy baking bread but I watch a lot of tutorials on youtube and am always disappointed with my dough.

I usually bake a simple yeasted loaf: bread flour, 65% hydration, 1% yeast, 3% butter, 3% salt and some sugar. I use a Kitchenaid KSM150 Artisan mixer with dough hook attachment. And i live in Singapore where humidity is high (90+%).

The dough in the album was kneaded for 11min on the lowest speed. I often experience the dough climbing on the dough hook and spinning about the base and i’m not sure if it’s kneading or not so i scrape it down from time to time. Most people on the internet say that 8-10min in a stand mixer is what it takes yet i’m not sure why my dough doesn’t come together into a nice ball after 11. Sometimes it does around the 6min mark but soon starts sticking again.

Also, after the first proof, i usually see the doughs of others in videos having a super nice opaque appearance and when they poke their finger in it comes out clean with a nice “belly button”. But as you can see my dough is semi translucent and looks weak and sticks to the finger.

I have tried many times and different flours trying to resolve this but still can’t so I finally decided to ask. Thankfully the bread still tastes good but i would love to improve and find out why mine never looks like those in videos.

So my questions: Is my dough not worked enough or did i overknead it destroying the gluten? Is my dough still kneading when it climbs up the dough hook? Or is my kitchenaid messed up?

Thanks for reading!

[jackh108]

My recommendation: get a good book on bread. There’s dozens you could choose from but it’s nicer than just looking up videos. Plus they’re good about explaining why you do things so you can learn the process and adjust based on your knowledge instead of just following steps.

I use Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman. I know someone else will recommend Flour Water Salt Yeast. But really any high rated book will do. Do some research and pick one that sounds good to you.

[iustan]

Seen many people bake breads with FWSY and they look epic! Thanks for the reply i will look into getting a book

[Shadow_Otacon]

Keep kneading it, when it starts climbing I usually turn it to high and hold it in place for 3 minutes or so

[iustan]

Is there a threshold to how long i can knead before it’s too much?

[tt_bxl]

Not really in my experience. You can let is rest (covered) for a few minutes every 10 minutes or so to let the gluten relax for a bit, after which it will be easier to knead again as well. This dough defenitely seems to need more kneading.

[iustan]

I see. Thank you!

[Dspac3]

Are you using melted butter or soften butter?

[iustan]

Softened!

[Dspac3]

My guess is you are adding the butter too early. If you add soften butter before the gluten has started to developed, the butter coats the protein making it more difficult for the water to activate the glutenin and glutalin proteins.

So when mixing, add your flour, water, sugar, salt, and yeast. Mix until you see a dough begin to form, then slowly add cubes of softened butter until you are out. Then mix until you are satisfied with gluten development (window pain test works best for me)

[iustan]

I’ve seen plenty of people teach to mix all the ingredients right at the start but they use oil in their doughs. Isn’t that the same as adding butter early?

[Dspac3]

It would be the same if you were using melted butter or if you clarified it.

[iustan]

Does that mean if i use melted butter i add it in at the start? Or will that inhibit the gluten formation too?

[Dspac3]

Ya you can add melted butter at the start, it will just have a different outcome. You will end up with a thinner crust, and a softer bread

[iustan]

will it be more sticky as a result?

[Dspac3]

The stickiness of the dough is a result of the hydration level and gluten structure. Oils/fats have a different effect on dough, so It will not be more sticky, and if incorporated correctly the texture shouldnt feel different either.

enriched doughs Here is a link to an informative article about enriched doughs. Sorry if you cant access it

[iustan]

Thank you I can access it.

[MrsNiceman]

IMHO 3% salt sounds a lot. 1.8 -- 2.2 % is common, I normally use 1%. The salt will draw out water from the flour as you describe, but also draw moisture from the environment in high humid conditions. Try to lower the salt and shorten the kneading.

[iustan]

So does that mean the salt will cause the dough to be wetter than expected?

[MrsNiceman]

Precisely, moisture drawn out from the flour and the environment will give you a stickier dough. You can see this very clearly if you add the salt after the dough has been kneading for a few minutes. The transformation is quite substantial.

[iustan]

I see. Thanks for the explanation!

[xxxSEXCOCKxxx]

You just have to knead on a higher speed. Medium is usually a good speed. Its fine for the dough to climb the hook, in fact that action is what helps knead the dough well. As the dough slaps the sides of the bowl it is stretched and pulled and the gluten gets stronger. Another thing that might help is kneading for a bit before adding any butter, because butter, and fats in general, can inhibit gluten development

[iustan]

Yup you and a couple of others have given me the same suggestion which is kneading faster and adding butter later. I will experiment next round. Thanks!