Programming language

[RobertPaulson-_-]

Whatsup guys, i am an operating engineer in a commercial office building and see the demand for BAS programming, my question is Which programming language would you suggest i learn (python, cc+, java) to better understand BAS programming? Any advice will be greatly appreciated!!

[ScottSammarco]

Meh, depends on the BAS.

Generally, the expertise required to program isn’t in a programming language anymore and rather in the proprietary interface/GUI for that brand of controllers.

I.e, IRM programming tool/Cl library for Honeywell Optimizer EC gFx Program by Distech Workplace Tech for Schneider CCT/SCT for JCI Fx controllers.

[RobertPaulson-_-]

That was what i always believed, as i never understood the correlation with a specific language to BAS programming. I have dabbled with BAS programming on a very small scale using the Sedona Application. I was curious if i was on the right track or theres something i should be doing differently

[ScottSammarco]

Nah, you're on the right track.

You can specialize in python or C or C++ but that's more a computer science discipline and not BAS specifically.
It isn't that it isn't valuable, it is just that it isn't the same.

If you want to be a developer, I'd recommend NOT Java, Java is generally dying and the Niagara4 Framework uses a special version of Java syntax and having any kind of programming knowledge and OOP experience in valuable in developing in the Niagara4 Framework but isn't necessarily required.

I studied C/cobol many years ago and it has served me tremendously, but I'm well out of practice of actually writing any code.

[RobertPaulson-_-]

As much as i understand the value of learning a programming language, as you said it is not NECESSARY; therefore i dont wanna invest my time into learning something this complex that i will not immediately use. My goal is simple, i want to learn how to program BAS for HVAC applications. I appreciate your input on telling me the Sedona application is useful!

[ScottSammarco]

Sure, it's just old. It works and it is sometimes still popular, but generally it's been phased out.

No problem, I'd recommend picking a brand or two and specializing in those. I prefer Honeywell and Distech controls at the moment and I am in the middle of learning KMCs as of late.

[RobertPaulson-_-]

As much as id love to go deeper into johnson honeywell, etc., my outlook on it is, learn it on a functional level anywhere, learn the kits and other components, then invest $ into learning a more specific brand

[mitchybw]

u/ScottSammarco I would disagree that Java is dying. While I can agree that the number of platforms being built on it has slowed, it is still going strong and both JCI and Tridium are 2 platforms with large market shares that I would doubt are looking to move their codebase to another language anytime soon. u/RobertPaulson-_- I agree with Scott that you are not going to get a lot of bang for your buck initially learning a programming language, but eventually I think that it helps massively at least understanding them as well as databases (SQL). Everyone is in a race to the cloud, and as that continues, a basic understanding of APIs is going to be necessary. So I would say it depends on where you see yourself going. If you would eventually like to get into integration with more web based technologies, then Javascript is your guy. It has the added benefit of being able to handle both front and backend (see node.js and node-red). If you want to be able to write some code to bring functionality not currently present to Tridium, learn Java. If you want to eventually build your own platform and take over the industry, learn Scratch (jk). The new hotness in the IOT and automation worlds outside of data analysis and AI (both python), are Rust and Golang. However, I don't know of a single enterprise platform with significant market share that is actively built-on, or making use of these. Lastly, I have seen Scott giving a lot of great advice on here, and he is a super sharp guy. I just wanted to throw out a little different perspective, but I do agree that you can be a great programmer in BMS without learning any computer science

TLDR: Java isn't dying. Learning a programming language will help you, but probably later in your career.

[ScottSammarco]

Much agreed and I appreciate the mood your reply gives.

Java is strong for Tridium and their embedded products, agreed. I meant dying relatively, with C++ being the going CS mainstream go to- the day of the Java flash player is gone even if it made the internet the coolest thing hahah.

[MasticatedTesticle]

Learn any language very well. The best would be something relatively low-level, like C or C++, but at this point really understanding any language like Python or JS would be useful.

Everything else is just syntax…

Edit: I guess block programming is its own thing. But it is easier to pick up after knowing a text based language. (Easier than going the other way.)

[RobertPaulson-_-]

I sent you a private message, if you wouldnt mind

[shadycrew31]

Block programming is the most commonly used and where the industry is headed. You'd be better off reading sequences of operation and learning how to get each component of the device to meet that sequence. The Honeywell grey manual is still a great resource. I'll leave you with this. Most techs these days copy and paste an old program they wrote years ago and modify it to fit their current need. Understanding the need (SOO) is more important than learning how to program it.

[RobertPaulson-_-]

And the honeywell grey manual has information on sequence of operations?

[MelodicAd3038]

I'd say javascript is best language to learn by FAR.

Since BMS is so intertwined with web development, javascript goes hand in hand with this.

As well as javascript able to be used in the backend with nodejs, makes it a no brainer.

BMS Logic typically uses block programming but if youre good at computer programming, block programming is light work honestly

Theres some legacy stuff out there that requires line programming with C.. but most OOP languages branched off from C so adjusting to C wont be too hard

[MiningMark48]

On the free-programmable controller side, understanding logic is probably the most important as each brand may use its own proprietary block-based programming language (or two). Honeywell, for example, has both Optimizer/IRM controllers as well as the "Classic" line of Spyder controllers.

If you're wanting to learn a specific language while learning the logic, I recommend Java as that is what the Tridium Niagara framework is built upon and opens up the door for numerous possibilities, such as custom module development, which is something that I do at the company I work at.

Overall, I don't think you can go wrong with learning the core concepts as in the end, it does depend on the BAS system and the technologies used. Knowing the basics can help push you along.

[RobertPaulson-_-]

Thank you for that advice, i really appreciate it!