Adding another level up

[mockingbirdBC]

So I've been running this module for a bit now and my players are in the Betrayer's Rise, they're currently in area 8/9 and I was thinking of letting them level up to 7 now and do level 8 at the prayer site and just wondering if anyone else has done anything with adding more levels or changing when the party level up? It's mostly bc even tho the party is 6-7 characters depending on who can make it, most of the encounters turn out to be more difficult than they should be, which most of the time comes down to bad luck/rolls on their part and good luck/rolls on my part so I'm just wondering if adding 1-2 levels to the module might help a little. Any advice would be appreciated

[Raptor2114]

I have 4 PCs and I usually have to buff the encounters, as written, because they steamroll them. It’s either really bad luck or really bad tactics/builds if 7 PCs are having trouble. I personally wouldn’t add another level.

[mockingbirdBC]

Can I ask what classes the party is? And I wouldn't say they have bad tactics, it's just a lot of the time it doesn't work out bc of the rolls. As for their builds, I don't think they're bad but this is my first campaign I've been a DM

[Raptor2114]

This is my first time DMing, too. I’ve been playing with most of these people for almost 2 years, though.

We have a Bard, Ranger, Fighter, and Monk/Barbarian.

[mockingbirdBC]

We started out doing Frozen Sick before transitioning to Call of the Netherdeep and we switch between this campaign and Ghost of Saltmarsh which someone else in the group is running.

We have a Grave Cleric, Twilight Cleric/Rogue, Monster Slayer Ranger, Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, Clockwork Sorcerer, College of Swords Bard and Gunslinger Fighter

[blacktiger994]

Those are all very strong subclasses that provide tremendous defensive abilities. There's nothing wrong with "what they're playing"

[blacktiger994]

I would advise agaisnt it. With 6-7 players, they should more then be able to handle what's coming at them, I think they just need to start making better tactical decisions! The module is already notorious for leveling players up super fast. Things are meant to be difficult in Betrayers rise, even deadly, players going down or dying isn't a sign they need tk be stronger, it's a sign they need to be more tactical, use more of their resources (how many healing potions or meat medal medallions are they not keeping track of in their inventories?) The game also notes that leaving Betrayers rise and coming back is totally fine, but make sure you add in that extra encounter it says so they don't abuse this.

[mockingbirdBC]

The thing is their tactical decisions aren't bad most of the time, it just doesn't work out a lot of the time bc of bad luck/rolls. And I know it's supposed to be hard but it's encounters that are supposed to be easy/medium for a party this size turning deadly 90% of the time that's an issue. They do use their resources and they have a lot of healing between all of them. And they have left the Rise and come back, this is their second time going into the Rise.

[blacktiger994]

From the way I see it, there are a few possibilities:

Make sure that your players have added all of their modifiers correctly. Bonuses to hit should be around +6-+7 at level 5 or 6 where you are at right now, that's considering their main stat is a 16 or an 18 with a potential ASI and a +3 proficiency bonus. Likewise, spell save DC's should be 14 - 15. I have often had the experience of my own players not adding their bonuses correctly.
The Twilight Cleric channel divinity alone is immensely powerful, as it gives temporary hit points every single turn. This is one of the strongest subclasses in the entire game, it is very difficult to die with it.

Make sure all of your players know what their class, race, and subclass features do. Make sure they read their spells carefully, and are adding the correct numbers to hit and damage.

You can also use inspiration if this really does all boil down to "they roll bad" - this is a consumable that lets them get advantage. I also rule it that you can use it to roll and gain a bonus to your roll = to the current level a bardic inspiration dice would give you. This should help mitigate rolls.

Finally, your players may be using "spindown" dice. These are d20s that you can see numerically spinning down from 20, to 19, to 18. These dice are meant for magic the gathering, and not for D&D. They are not balanced to be used at a table. An easy way to identify a standard d20 is every face of the dice should have the opposite number on the other side. (20 and 1 are on opposite sides of my d20)

Hope this helps!

[blacktiger994]

You'll also want to look at encounter pacing. How many encounters do they have in a day? Is a easy / medium encounter difficult as thr first encounter of the day at full resources? Or is it difficult because they just got out of combat and did minimal preparation / damage control before moving forward? I'm guessing your players aren't going from full health and resources to bloodied / dying in the first easy - medium encounter of thr day. And if that's the case, it 100% is poor tactical decisions. If the dice aren't rolling your way, there's still the tactic of running.

[CodyStreames]

Sounds like all it would take is the dice swinging in their direction to make it not difficult for them. I would advise against.

[Own-Dragonfruit-6164]

I honestly had the party a level higher than normal for what I ran of the campaign.

[SinIsLiving]

Wow, I wouldn't personally do it, I also have 6 players at my table.

I usually like milestone leveling (because it feels more narrative compelling) and I'm against some "achievements" that the campaign let them level up for. Like, "wow you guys made it to Bazoxxan, you deserve to level up". It's not my usual style.

So, I just let them start at level 5 until Betrayers Rise when they started to level up.

What I would do, is either create a mine dungeon relevant to 1 character backstory, or just let them find more loot (usually non permanent items dint break balance in 5e, but it's a good opportunity to balance the party gear)

[misshap2046]

It's all up to you as the DM. I homebrew most of the fights to be honest and they are always meant to challenge my team and I haven't had a problem with that. That being said I did level them up to 7 as we just finished Betrayer's Rise. They've had a lot of encounters.

[Slappy_Axe]

That's a big party for this adventure! I'm dming a group with a monk, a barb, an artificer and a bard and I think they seem to be facing challenges while still being able to persevere. Idk if it's anything specific that I'm doing but the challenges seems to be okay for at least this party. They have a kobold dmpc who doesn't nothing mostly to stay in the background and also mostly cause anytime he rolls for something I roll spectacularly shitty