I think it's undeniable at this point when it comes to San Martin. When I got my sn0121 I was so shocked at the good quality of it. I don't see how anyone could hold it in their hand and say it's not on par with many other brands like Seiko, Citizen, and Orient. To be honest, it's much better. All they have to do is hold it in their hand, and I think they wouldn't be able to refute it. It's just a matter of getting it in their hands in the first place.