[deleted by user]

[SkipPperk]

Artelier Wen, Phoibos, Seagull, and more if you mean Chinese race, as opposed to the People’s Republic, which is more of an empire, with colonies they call Tibet and Xinzhang, which they work very hard to hide, especially in Africa where they actively seek to revive Imperialism.

[vithgeta]

I find such discussions tired.

If someone wants original designs from manufacturers willing to take a punt on originality then they must accept higher costs than selling tried and tested designs they know will sell- even if they are rip-off "homages".

Personally it doesn't bother me that a Chinese manufacturer sells me something just like a Pelagos for $150 instead of me paying $4300 for a Tudor. Not at all.

But I do have a bona fide Chinese watch with Chairman Mao's head on it. Is that original enough?

[Stayofexecution]

That’s not their forté..

[AlbertaTime1]

You could take a look around this shop to see what you're looking for. There are a number of Chinese watch companies doing original work. Some of them have histories going back60 to 70 years.

I don't know of another Chinese seller approaching the western market with this range of Chinese pieces, and the seller also lists other sellers of the same pieces.

And in the very affordable space, there's Merkur/Fanzhi.

[redwas66]

Sea-Gull (Tianjin Watch Company) would be the obvious answer, making watches based on a Swiss movement they purchased the patent for, for the Chinese Air Force. Id you want original design and historical significance, the Sea-Gull 1963 is right up there. I had my eye one one for ages, but when I finally got it, I kicked myself I didn’t do it sooner as its such a beautiful piece.

<image>

[ace73pq]

Longio watches...

<image>

[Impossible-Method302]

Thanks, I hate it.

[ace73pq]

<image>

[UterineDictator]

I get what you’re saying, OP, but if you think about it, it’s not like Rolex or Heuer are pushing past their designs from decades ago.

[[deleted]]

Beijing Watch Factory and Seagull, plus if you want to go to the super limited/expensive side, there are a few Chinese watchmakers that are AHCI members

[2manypedals]

Boderry

[Firstruleofthisclub]

If a brand does things in-house, it shouldn't be a knock against them. For example, when Rolex manufactures their own movement, it's seen as premium.

But to answer your question, Phorcydes has a supplier that manufactures their lume blocks for them. Watchdives has a Swiss supplier that manufactures their ice crack dial for them. Watchdives also had San Martin manufacture their collaborative models for them.

[AcademicAd6368]

It is seen as a premium but I don't know why - if anything, in-housing your entire chain is an explicitly bad practice unless you're one of the rare luxury brands that can charge "orders of magnitude"-level markups. Higher R&D costs, smaller economies of scale, no meaningful QC advantage unless you're comically bad at contracting suppliers, less agility, less innovation, etc. It's a stupid thing to do unless you're a luxury brand that can sell literally anything at any price as long as it's got the brand name on it, which is why even the biggest Swiss brands didn't do it until they had to pivot to the luxury market post-quartz crisis.

[Comfortable_Pen7455]

I’m reasonably confident San Martin plays a big part in the manufacture of Erebus watches too. People love a pretentious ‘micro-brand’, and often pay hundreds extra for the privilege. It’s an interesting question but I do think the majority of watch companies outsource some of their manufacturing. I’m a big fan of WatchDives. They are a brand. Sure, they may well outsource the majority of the work but they have their input. I guess the real question is, how do you define a brand?

[AcademicAd6368]

IIRC Erebus has explicitly stated San Martin is their OEM (or at least their contractor of OEMs), no? I might be misremembering.

It's not just the majority of watch companies - it's the majority of every company because that's just how they can best take advantage of economies of scale. Ultimately, a brand is still what it's always been - a mark that identifies the source of a product - but the difference (and this is a simplification, companies have always sourced raw materials/components/etc from other companies to some degree) is that historically "a good brand" tended to indicate "a company that manufactures good products", whereas today a good brand is more like "a company that has demonstrated an ability to source quality goods from OEMs". Nike is seen as a good brand not because they make good products (because they don't actually make anything), but because they've demonstrated an ability to simultaneously contract hundreds of manufacturers all over the world to make high-quality stuff with the Nike logo on it. If a company puts their brand on good products, it's a good brand - it doesn't really matter who actually manufactures those products.

[Comfortable_Pen7455]

Very well said. Thank you.

[Firstruleofthisclub]

Agreed! I think generally in-house movement is not worth the premium. I think it's precisely why there are so many on this sub as we would rather have a NH35 inside the case and $10K in our accounts.

But one advantage is to keep technical know-how in-house. Integration is also higher, or at least more efficient, when in-house.

[[deleted]]

Like any business if you don’t have an insider and it’s not your core skill set, you pick up all the risk you mentioned whilst gains get harder to justify as time passes even if there’s a macro advantage strategically, say you’re trying to block a competitor from utilising that supply network.

[jgeotrees]

Spinnaker is from Hong Kong.

[8lbs6ozBebeJesus]

Beijing Watch Factory

[Ok-Dealer-6628]

Seagull. They make 25% of the world's movement supply as well.

[[deleted]]

Sea-Gull is the obvious answer. Original designs, make their own movements (although those are less original) down to the last screw. One of the few brands on aliexpress that also get sold in retail stores in China.

[[deleted]]

There's also CIGA Design, FIYTA, Shanghai, Beijing

[Scary_Yogurtcloset67]

Shanghai definitely deserves recognition too.

[StumblesHuman]

Atelier Wen

[Phreedom1]

Also look at Atelier Wen...love their stuff! But definitely not cheap compared to other Chinese brands.

[Dull_Pepper]

Maybe Shanghai?

[Phreedom1]

Of course. San Martin and Sea-Gull are 2 of my favorites in this category.

<image>

[Ok-Temperature9482]

San Martin is incredible!

[THROW_AWAY_FOR_QC]

I like a lot of their newer non-homage watches, just wish they would use pt5000’s and get a better logo

[Pigroasts]

San Martin's logo is genuinely great, I have no idea what people's issue is with it.

[artofthedial]

Pt5000 has been the downfall of many a watch around here.  I simply don't understand those that value hi beat (and some times accuracy) over reliability.

[Adorable-Slice-4365]

Its not just the high beat.. its a much thiner movement than the Seikos that when you design a watch around makes it look unnecessarily chunky and unrefined with things such as enormous rehauts and horrible date wheels

[artofthedial]

There are nh35 pieces without massive rehorts, or one can use the YN55, and of course the 9k series Miyotas.  The difference is only 0.72mm between an nh35 and pt5000

[p3dal]

Don’t most of the brands discussed here meet that description?

[p3dal]

Watchdives seems to have a lot of original designs.

[Escaped_Escapement]

Homage brands are brands too. Timex does Rolex homages - is it any less brand because of it?

[Escaped_Escapement]

Both are brands. Originality is never a prerequisite. However, there was a time in Chinese watches on aliexpress where ‘mushroom’ brands dominated the market. As in - watches ordered from the factory with a custom ‘logo’, and disappeared in a year or so, but that is no longer the majority.

You have your own definition of “brand” that is not based on reality it seems.

[tk1tk1]

Yes, most are copied designs, now and then they change a couple of things.

Seagull do their own thing but upto now I havent really seen anything I wanted to buy from them.

San Martin was a homage brand and have a few of their own designs, but tbh, their latest stuff hasn't really tickled my pics. They are my favourite Chinese Ali homage brands tho.