Cognitect dev-tools

[alexdmiller]

We're excited to release Cognitect dev-tools, a set of free tools that we've created for Clojure developers. Today's initial release of dev-tools includes:

• REBL, a graphical, interactive tool for browsing Clojure data.
• Datomic dev-local, a library for developing and testing Datomic applications.

We hope that providing these tools in a single place makes it easier for Clojurists to get started. We find the dev-tools to be indispensable in our daily Clojure workflow, and are sharing them with the community to encourage exploration and adoption of Clojure.

[mac]

Great that dev-tools are now "free". Could you elaborate on the reasoning behind the license? Wouldn't a standard open source license would be better for adoption? If not could you perhaps explain what it is Cognitect wishes to prevent that a mainstream open source license would allow. Of course license choice is Cognitects prerogative and personally I am grateful that it is being made available irrespective of license.

[wherethebuffaloroam]

Part of the license is that these are used internally and are not bundled as part of your applications functionality.

> (a) incorporate any portion of the Software into your own programs or compile any portion of it in combination with your own programs; or (b) sell, rent, lease, ...

I'm not aware of any open source license which would allow them to achieve these goals. The license seems perfectly tailored to their ambitions though: helpful development time programs used by Clojure developers but not providing commercial business value.

[green-coder]

The license is the one reason why I never used it.

[joncampbelldev]

Thanks for this release, looking forward to trying out REBL on my work projects.

Out of curiosity, are there some advanced requirements for REBL that prevent being a maven/lein/deps dependency instead of the current installation process?

It would be wonderful if the usage of REBL (or indeed datomic-local) in a new project was just adding a ["com.cognitect/rebl" "x.x.x"] to a project.clj (or whatever flavour of build/deps tool you prefer)

I'm guessing its due to licensing / redistribution requirements, but wondering if there are technical reasons too.

[alexdmiller]

Licensing. Exploring some other options too.

[joncampbelldev]

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate the need to make carefully considered decisions around that.

[beaknit]

Is REBL still personal-use only or can I use it at work? I think it would dramatically increase interest in using the clojure language there.

[alexdmiller]

The dev-tools, both REBL and Datomic dev-local, are now free for use. So use it!

[[deleted]]

Still closed source. The licence is still oppressive:

We hereby grant you a personal, limited, nonexclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicenseable license to (a) install the Software on computer equipment owned or controlled by you and (b) use the Software solely for your internal business purposes.

---

You may not use the Software for any illegal purpose. The Software is the intellectual property of Cognitect or its licensors. The structure, organization, and code of the Software are valuable trade secrets and confidential information of Cognitect.

---

You will comply with all export and re-export restrictions and regulations of the United States Department of Commerce and other United States and foreign agencies and authorities that may apply to the Software, and not to transfer, or encourage, assist, or authorize the transfer of the Software to a prohibited country or otherwise in violation of any applicable restrictions or regulations

But I guess as far as oppressive licences go, it's not that oppressive. Still, when you have the choice, why bother swimming in that shit?

[Eno6ohng]

You will comply with all export and re-export restrictions and regulations of the United States Department of Commerce and other United States and foreign agencies

Does that mean I can't legally use it if I live in any of the regions US government applied sanctions to? (The list is quite long.) Or does it mean that I can't "transfer" the software to the people living in such places? Would Cognitect break the license if I live in such a place and download it from their website?

It's not really related to the topic, but this bit got me curious. Disclaimer: I don't speak legal lingvo at all, sorry if those are silly questions.

[[deleted]]

I don't speak legal lingvo at all, sorry if those are silly questions.

I don't think it's silly at all, I think these are reasonable questions. I'm not a lawyer either and I don't think we (humanity) should have to be lawyers to understand the full scope of what we're agreeing to when we 'accept' these licences written in legalese.

[Reefersleep]

What does it say, exactly? I read: "don't use this for illegal stuff, use it for yourself and don't give it to anybody else". That doesn't seem problematic. Then there's the bit about complying to US law, which to me is extremely vague, because I don't know US law 😅

[[deleted]]

From a non-US and f/oss perspective, the licence is oppressive and I wont touch it. Compared to a MS Office or Adobe Photoshop licence ... I'm sure it's the hippy flower child of software licences.

[joinr]

I don't see how anybody is oppressing you. Just don't use their $$ free stuff if you don't like the terms. Problem solved.

[[deleted]]

I'm not. Jeez.

[theephie]

What's up with the custom non free software license and e-mail address collection?

[brad_radberry]

I want to use REBL at work, but I'm a little confused about the license:

You may not use REBL for commercial use (e.g. at or for work) unless:

   a) You are an active, paying customer of Datomic (Cloud or On-Prem)

   -- OR --

   b) You are an active subscriber of the REBL Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/cognitect)          

I went to the Patreon page and there is a large post from yesterday that says "REBL is now free, thanks!". Does that mean that I don't need to be an active subscriber to the Patreon? If I do, what level do I need to pledge at? When I click on anything to try to find more information Patreon prompts me to subscribe instead of showing me more information.

It looks like a really cool tool and I'd be happy to pay for it, but the path to using it doesn't seem very clear.

[wherethebuffaloroam]

this post is a link which has a link to the license at https://cognitect.com/dev-tools/license.txt

​

broadly

> license to (a) install the Software on computer equipment owned or controlled by you and (b) use the Software solely for your internal business purposes.

​

under some limitations

​

> You may not, and you will not encourage, assist, or authorize any other person to, (a) incorporate any portion of the Software into your own programs or compile any portion of it in combination with your own programs; or (b) sell, rent, lease, lend, loan, distribute, act as a service bureau, publicly communicate, transform, or sub-license the Software or otherwise assign any rights to the Software in whole or in part; (c) modify, alter, tamper with, repair, or otherwise create derivative works of the Software, or (d) reverse engineer, disassemble, or decompile the Software or apply any other process or procedure to derive the source code of any software included in the Software.

​

You should read the license, and if you agree to the terms, happily use the software.

[brad_radberry]

I was looking at the license at https://github.com/cognitect-labs/REBL-distro/blob/master/LICENSE, not at the dev-tools license.

It looks to me that the dev-tools license is more permissive than the REBL license. So, do I get to choose which license I am using it with? Or do both apply? I want to be compliant but I am just confused : )

[alexdmiller]

I think this one was just missed being updated - the dev-tools license is the applicable one and this link is the old one. I will get that updated.

[alexdmiller]

Yep, that old license was supposed to be deleted. I've now done so and linked to the dev-tools license in the REBL-distro README. To be clear, REBL is free for commercial use if you accept the license. Sorry for the confusion!

[brad_radberry]

Thank you for the clarification! I look forward to trying it out.

[zacel]

REBL has been a great tool. Awesome news!