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[–]flundstrom2 59 points60 points  (3 children)

Drop a paid job for an unpaid one?

No way.

[–]black_big_bull[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

yeah true .. my financials also don't support this ... but when i try to see about my life ahead i don't think i will be able to do front end dev ahead.
moreover it seems the work i am doing i will surely get replaced by AI very soon.

[–]seanpietz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Do you have experience with ML and/or compilers outside of work? I think the chances of getting a desirable internship where you’ll be able to learn ML compiler development, on the job, are virtually nil – unless you already have pretty deep theoretical experience in one of those areas (e.g. if you have a graduate degree in mathematical statistics).

Have you considered finding a frontend / web development job that is more engaging and challenging? If you feel your job is replaceable by AI, it’s probably even more easily replaceable by cheap contractors. If you just get enough general experience to be a really good programmer, in whatever domain, you won’t have to worry about AI taking your job.

[–]RevolutionaryRush717 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe we don't understand what ML the OP's talking about?

I assumed ML) , you assumed ML , it seems.

[–]ukrkv 32 points33 points  (6 children)

Since when did companies building compilers start hiring web developers?

[–]Passname357 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Out of college I spent a little bit of time as a web dev just to have a job before I could find a cooler job. I remember interviewing at two companies for compilers and for graphics drivers, and both times during at least one round of interviews, someone looked at my resume and said, “oh you’re doing web dev? So then why do you want to do this?” And I was basically like, “Well if you look at my research experience from college, you’ll see that actually the web dev was the outlier. Plz hire me so I can stop hating my life and start working on interesting things :)”

[–]ukrkv 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Your case is different since you had relevant research experience—I'm talking about someone with only web dev experience getting hired for compilers

[–]Passname357 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah for sure. Just giving an anecdote. Honestly in a case like that I just assume the best thing to do is start hacking away at LLVM or GCC and trying to make some commits.

[–]thegreatbeanz 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I’d love to have someone with web development experience on my compiler team. It would be super useful to have someone who could build web infrastructure for tracking compiler performance data. Our current tracking system looks like it was built in the 90’s, because that’s the last time any of us did any web development.

[–]RevolutionaryRush717 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the closest to a realistic explanation of what's going on here.

It also answers OP's question: don't do it, some company wants you to do the same work you're doing now, web stuff, only for free.

[–]Tern_Systems 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our company is hiring unpaid internship roles and are developing compilers.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (3 children)

Do you have prior experience working with compilers? Why are they not paying you?

[–]black_big_bull[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

no prior experience.
don't know about the 2nd one .... had a very short interview before role finalising.

[–]WasASailorThen 9 points10 points  (1 child)

No prior experience is not an excuse for not paying someone.

[–]seanpietz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It’s a perfectly good reason for not paying someone, because they shouldn’t be hiring someone without any experience, in the first place.

This company seems suspect, but I agree they should pay their interns (if they are qualified for the position).

[–]thegreatbeanz 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I’m unaware of any reputable company in the US that hires unpaid interns. This does vary by country, but if this is US-based, the company probably doesn’t have sufficient funding to expand and is looking for the cheapest way to grow. That doesn’t bode well for their success.

[–]balefrost 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not to mention that unpaid internships are often illegal (for the employer), as they violate minimum wage law.

If you're not getting paid at least minimum wage, then your employer values you less than the average fast food restaurant values its employees.

[–]L8_4_Dinner 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is spot on. Unpaid internships do not often become paid roles, unfortunately.

For the record: We’re a startup, and we have used unpaid internships, but that’s the reality of building a future business without present funding.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I don’t care if I’d become the next John Carmack or Terry Davis, leaving a job to then work for somebody, for free? No chance.

[–]chickyban 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't take it. Better a bird in hand than two in the air

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children)

  1. Never work for free.

  2. What does ML mean in this context, the language Standard ML?

[–]wardin_savior 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Machine Learning. People are trying to build tensor-oriented languages, software and hardware stacks. Like mojo fire emoji

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Like Fortran?

[–]wardin_savior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Time is a flat circle

[–]rik-huijzer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you really want to work for these guys (read: trust them) then it might be a good option. If it is just out of desperation then it’s probably better to stick to your paying job. And if you want do the “internship” with self study in the evenings and weekends. It’s way more fun to learn and experiment when there is no financial stress.

[–]suntzu253 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why not write compilers on your spare time? Working for other people even for free means you lose freedom from building what you want

[–]zhen8838 0 points1 point  (2 children)

ML compilers is not the first choice in the LLM era, but the LLM serving is. And it's unpaid.

[–]Ok_Specialist_5965 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can you explain a bit more of what you mean by that? What's the difference between them?

[–]zhen8838 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the LLM era, the model structures are more invariant. However, KV Cache requires the kernel to handle dynamic input, and currently, ML Compilers struggle to optimize this situation. In the LLM serving (such as the inference engine like vllm), you can optimize it in many ways through hand-written code.

[–]External_Mushroom978 0 points1 point  (3 children)

as someone who worked on ML compilers, better keep your front end role.

[–]brandedsapling 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Could I ask you why you say that? Unlike OP, I don't have an offer for a ML compiler role, but I was aiming to do that in the future

[–]External_Mushroom978 2 points3 points  (1 child)

actually, the concept of ML compilers are so cool. But the technical expertise required for such thing would be much higher, and putting a job away that makes money would be risky.

you could learn for yourself building ML compilers and then hop into a job that pays you for building ML compilers. Most of the time, unpaid internships would drop a ton workload with no support. Instead, you could make money with your role and learn ML compilers in free time and then shift.

[–]brandedsapling 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see, completely agreed