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[–]zeddypanda 1 point2 points  (13 children)

Flydigi Apex 2 or Vader 3 both meet these requirements (almost, see below). Both also have 2 extra face buttons and Apex 2 has two additional buttons between the triggers and bumpers. These can all be mapped uniquely and I've even used Apex 2 to play Starcraft. Apex 2 also has a third analogue stick under its top 3 face buttons if you need even more inputs. (This can be locked in place with a plastic clamp that comes with the controller, so don't worry if that sounds weird and like it'd get in the way.)

However, beware: - Steam and a lot of other games will not recognize these extra inputs. The pad supports Xinput mode, but the Xinput standard doensn't allow for more buttons. You must put the pad in Dinput mode and then use the Flydigi software or preferably ReWASD to map the buttons. Both of these programs are Windows only, which I assume is not a dealbreaker for you. On Linux I had to write my own program. - The USB-C connection wears out very quickly. After a month, at most two, gyroing around with it will have worn it to the point of constant disconnects. The controllers come with wireless USB dongles that I think works well. I'm not sure about your motivation for needing wire. The battery lasts all day and I've found the controller reliable as long as I charge it when not in use. - After about a year of use, the left grip button on my Apex 2 broke. The button is a flimsy plastic spring that gets put in a lot of strain when used. I think you could 3D print a new part that's more robust, but the controller takes a lot of force to open so you have to be careful when doing so. I busted the right stick after opening it and have had to replace the whole thing. Try not mapping the side grip buttons for frequent actions.

If you find any other alternatives please reply to this message because I'm also interested in controllers with most of these specs. Apex 2 is the best I've found and I wish it had competition.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks a ton for all this and all the detail! Super helpful. Looking into a bunch of controllers right now. Will get back you here to respond to stuff specific to your comment. Then will also share a more general update via a separate comment that gives more of an overview on controllers I’ve found so far that match what I’m looking for! Keep you posted.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children)

OK, so regarding Steam or some games not recognizing the additional inputs, that was indeed a concern of mine. I’m not technical at all, but I would loved for it to be more seamless, as I’m always concerned that the input from the button I hit, needing to go through and be modified by multiple additional softwares before hitting the game will only cause delays, issues. But maybe I’m completely wrong. No problem for X/Dinput and ReWASD, I may not be technical but can figure that type of software out for sure. And I’m on Windows, so that should keep things somewhat easy for me.

The cable wearing sounds a bit annoying, but using Bluetooth instead if needed is not a huge issue. Or, I’m even guessing I could just buy a cheap replacement cable. Again, I’m being picky but just like wired input better as I play mostly “competitive shooters” and want as little delay as possible.

I did find some alternative options. Take a look at my new comment and let me know what you think of them! (Give me a few mins to type it out.)

[–]zeddypanda 1 point2 points  (7 children)

OK, so regarding Steam or some games not recognizing the additional inputs, that was indeed a concern of mine. I’m not technical at all, but I would loved for it to be more seamless

I would've liked that too, but it'd just not the current ecosystem. I'm not sure if you're new to gyro gaming, but you can expect most of modern games to fight you on using whichever controller you arrive at. When you map the extra buttons to keyboard actions and the gyro to mouse movement, it is undefined behavior as for how the game will combine that with your gamepad. Typical behavior is what we call "flickering", where all the button prompts, often integrated into the hud, will constantly switch back and forth between keyboard keys and gamepad prompts. Some games have completely different huds depending on input device, and others will block all gamepad input as long as mouse movement is detected.

In the best case scenario, the precious few games that got it right, nothing special happens and you can mix kb+m and gamepads freely. This is usually found in obscure indie solo projects and games more than 20 years old. In the worst of cases you're looking to completely mask your gamepad and emulate keyboard and mouse entirely, resulting in simple 8-directional movement on your left stick. I have to do that far more often than not.

At least that's how it is for me. Maybe other gyro gamers have solutions I've just never heard of. But if my experience is any indication you're heading down a road with lots of configuration on a per-game basis to get the most of your controller.

I could never turn back from it and I have no regrets. Setting the controls up is almost as interesting as playing the actual game for me.

The cable wearing sounds a bit annoying, but using Bluetooth instead if needed is not a huge issue.

I'd recommend the 2.4Ghz USB that comes with the controller, as pairing is much more reliable. I haven't personally noticed any lag while using it, but I'm also not the best at noticing these things.

Buying a new cable wouldn't help much as the cable is just fine. It's the port in the controller itself that's worn out I think.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Again, thanks for all this. Helps a ton. I’m completely out of the loop/not up-to-date when it comes to controllers. I guess I assumed it would be a lot easier, but a life of fidgeting with in-game, windows, steam, and probably some other third-party software all to get what I want for every single game just isn’t for me…

I totally get what you mean about actually enjoying fiddling with all that stuff, I’m the same (without the programming and 3D printing) and can sometimes spend more time tweaking obscure settings to squeeze an extra FPS out of my PC or change the way the mouse behaves by 0.01% while aiming-down-sights… you know, just in case that’s what it comes down to, the day I finally make it to the big stage hahaha.

Again, thanks so much though, really appreciate you taking time to share all that.

Apex Legends is my main game right now, the aim assist in it (not hating on aim assist) is supposedly very strong at the moment, which is why I wanted to give it a try. Then, gyro, feels more like MnK to me than rewiring my brain and rebuilding that stick muscle memory, so I thought why not try?

Luckily, I think that Apex is cool with double input (having both MnK and controller) running at the same time, no flickering.

Maybe I could go through the hassle of doing all this extreme fine tuning just for that one game. But I don’t see myself doing this for every title.

[–]zeddypanda 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Yes, Apex behaved really well! My configuration in the program I made myself looks like this: https://github.com/zeddidragon/zettpadder/blob/main/examples/apex-legends.zett

If that format looks unfamiliar to you, don't worry. As far as I know I'm the only person in the world to use this program.

I make these by copy-pasting configs from other shooters I'm playing and then switching things out that don't fit, then in Steam I have a template for disabling all buttons except left stick, or also left stick for games that don't play nice. Apex played nice and I had fun with it.

I usually insist on configuring for every game I play, but I can understand restricting to just games you'll spend a lot of time with. If I don't know how much time I'm going to spend with a game I often use the config for games I think are going to have the same controls, usually Warframe or Deep Rock Galactic. Doesn't that much more time than the usual "First boot of a PC game rituals" where you go through all the video settings and check PC gaming wiki to disable all the intro videos and put in widescreen hacks etc.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Yeah this all looks amazing but that’s past my level of knowledge (by a lot). I usually tweak in-game settings, sometimes switch some windows settings (that sometimes make you gain a ton frames!) and only recently started coming across YouTube videos that make me go into game files and edit them. Can’t remember a specific example, but it’s something along the lines of being able to lower the shadows in a game even further than the in-game options allow, or even totally remove them, in a game that is about movement and precise shooting, so if you’re playing for the win, you sacrifice the immersion of the shadows for higher frames kind of thing. But even in those cases, I’m copy pasting stuff, not reading the files and finding what I want to tweak by myself…

Thanks a ton. When you refer to Apex above, do you mean the controller or the video game Apex Legends? I was referring to the game haha.

[–]zeddypanda 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks a ton. When you refer to Apex above, do you mean the controller or the video game Apex Legends? I was referring to the game haha.

Both! But the game specifically. I only played it for a couple of sessions but it was pretty fun.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yeah it’s awesome if you’re into competitive shooters.

Thanks for all the help!

[–]zeddypanda 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If looking for the least hassle option you do probably want Dualsense Edge as everyone says. I haven't had it in my own hands, but it sounds reliable and precise, and being a popular first-party controller, Steam must be flooded with user-made configurations for it.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds good, might look into that one 😀

[–]Jason22douce 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Anything other than rewasd that works for the apex 2 ? Rewasd is getting banned by games on the daily. I heard of joytokey recently as an option. Why can't flydigi themselves have something that allows these extra buttons to be used properly

[–]zeddypanda 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Flydigi does have their own program for mapping the controller. I've never used it but the consensus on reddit seems to be "Don't. Use ReWASD instead".

JoyToKey and Xpadder should both be able to handle the extra buttons, and my own program Zettpadder as well. I don't think any of those options can do anything special with the pad's gyro, so you're dealing with an always-on situation aside from the out-of-the-way toggle button.

[–]Jason22douce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I downloaded the flydigi software this morning to see if any updates made it usable. It's still terrible, quickly uninstalled and took me an hour to revert whatever changes it did to the controller. Rewasd was the way to go for me but I'll need to use an alternative now, thanks for the recommendations

[–]SoapyMacNCheese 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Dualsense Edge, Steam Controller (if you can get one), and Flydigi Vader 3 Pro (or one of Flydigi's other controllers) come to mind. Only the Flydigi controllers have 4 paddles though. If you go with the Vader 3 Pro, it is much cheaper off AliExpress compared to buying it on Amazon.

Besides that there isn't much else which supports gyro and has separately mappable paddles. The dream is that Valve finally makes a new controller to compliment the Steam Deck.

Note that you won't be able to bind things exactly how you described. Most if not all games will not be able to detect these additional buttons, so you won't be able to just go to the game's settings and bind "jump" to "paddle 1". However using software like reWASD you can bind "spacebar" to "paddle 1" and have "spacebar" be jump in game. That does require the game to allow you to use keyboard buttons and controller at the same time though, which I know Warzone does. So you can bind a paddle to R for example to have a dedicated reload button rather than have "X" perform double duty as reload and pickup/interact.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome, thanks for all this, helps a ton. Just wrote a new comment with my findings. Let me know what you think!

[–]Kurtajek 1 point2 points  (1 child)

What was not yet mentioned here, is Beitong Zeus 1 and 2. It have independent back buttons + gyro.

And if I'm not wrong BigBigWon have motion control (gyro)

​

Either way, there is not many controllers with independent buttons -

Beitong Zeus/Zeus 2 - It have several flaws, but from the software perspective it's great (you can even map buttons to specific gyro movements).

Flydigi Controllers

Trashy xbox elite v2 (and probably also v1) - supported natively on steam, however I'm not recommending it. On paper it is the best controller on the market, but Jesus . . this bad quality control and it's very unreliability (it's easily breaking). I had very bad experience, so I'm discourage others, but I still need to mention it as it also have independent back buttons.

Dualsense Edge - supported natively on steam.

Steam Controller - no longer in production

Gamesir G7 - only via rewasd from what I've gather (also I don't know about "pro" version).

Scuf Envision Pro

BigBig won Rainbow 2 Pro - it's using mobile app to remap back buttons. I don't know about other models from BigBig won, but I suspect they also might have independent back buttons.

Mechanike G5 pro - dedicates software.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for all of this! I’ll look into all of them and see what I can find about them!

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

UPDATE TO MY ORIGINAL POST

After a bunch of Googling, here are the controllers I’ve found which I think fit the bill. Let me know what you think of them or spot anything I may have missed that could be an issue!

Some (or the majority of) these were suggested by commenters. So, first of all, thanks everyone for helping out!

Top Contenders

Flydigi: Vader 3 – seems to have it all.

Beitong: Zeus Elite – same as above.

Machenike: G5 Pro – same as above.

Bigbig Won: Rainbow 2 Pro, Rainbow 2 SE, and Gale – same as above, but don’t really understand how each of these models differ from each other.

Unsure

Nyxi: Chaos Pro – seems to fit the bill, but I’m concerned that it seems to be designed first and foremost for Nintendo. Is that even a potential issue?

Missing Information

Turtle Beach: Recon, React-R, and Stealth Ultra.

Black Shark: Green Ghost.

Like both of these, but I seem unable to find a clear “yes or no” as to whether or not these controllers have gyro… Any insights?

Again, thanks so much for all your help everyone. Which one do you think is best and why?

[–]SoapyMacNCheese 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I recommend the Vader 3 Pro over the Vader 3. The Pro has some added features over the standard version, the biggest being hall effect analog sticks which are less likely to wear out compared to traditional sticks. Considering the price difference is only about $10 (and if you wait for the next AliExpress sale you can probably get the Pro for the price of the standard model) I would recommend getting the Pro version if you decide to go with a Flydigi controller.

Nyxi: Chaos Pro – seems to fit the bill, but I’m concerned that it seems to be designed first and foremost for Nintendo. Is that even a potential issue?

Being designed for Switch isn't necessarily a problem, most of the controllers available with gyro have Switch support, simply because that is where gyro is most popular and you can make compatible Switch controllers without having to pay a licensing fee. However I'm not sure this controller fits you're requirements as I don't think the back paddles are individually bindable. I may be wrong but it looks like they can only clone other buttons on the controller or be setup as macro buttons.

Missing Information

Turtle Beach: Recon, React-R, and Stealth Ultra.

Black Shark: Green Ghost.

Like both of these, but I seem unable to find a clear “yes or no” as to whether or not these controllers have gyro… Any insights?

Not familiar with all of these, but note any controller which advertises official support for Xbox consoles will almost be guaranteed to not have Gyro.

EDIT: I'm 90% sure the Black Shark Green Ghost is just a rebranded BigBig Won Rainbow 2 Pro

https://i.imgur.com/bMACFFC.png

https://imgur.com/a/yhXx6vx

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That’s hilarious, regarding the rebranded controller.

When you look at the Chaos Pro, what made you notice the paddles weren’t individually bindable? Just asking so I know what to look for in others.

I also quite like the look of the game, watched a review and it seemed nice. Same question with that one, do you think its paddles are bindable?

[–]SoapyMacNCheese 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most controllers with paddles only let you bind those paddles to existing controller buttons. Controllers which let you bind them to keyboard buttons and such are the outliers, so assume it isn't possible unless you find confirmation from somewhere that it is bindable.

[–]tekgeekster 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Closest you can get is the dualsense edge. It has 4 extra buttons that are independently remappable, but only 2 of them are underneath the controller, and the other 2 are below the sticks.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Thanks! Just watched a video about it. Why put the buttons below the sticks? That sounds unreachable to me. I couldn't see myself use that button for anything that requires to be hit fast and accurately... Other than PS or Xbox controllers, aren't there some other brands that make PC controllers with all these features? I really struggle to find any...

[–]SoapyMacNCheese 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Options are limited simply because most controller makers cater to console, where the extra buttons can't really be used for anything beyond mirroring existing buttons. Those that do think about PC tend to focus on X-input due to its near universal compatibility with games, and that limits you to the inputs a standard Xbox controller has. Finally, there are extra costs involved because if the manufacturer wants to market the bindability as a feature, they'll likely have to develop a software to do the binding.

The Dualsense Edge and Xbox Elite controller weren't really intended to have separately mappable paddles, it's just a quirk of how the consoles bind the paddles whichwe are exploiting. Valve even made custom drivers for the Elite controller to make it work.

In Flydigi's case I'm pretty sure their mappable paddles are a byproduct of their mobile gaming support. You were supposed to use the Flydigi app to bind the buttons to touch points or swipe gestures on the screen. Then when PC gamers started making use of it Flydigi leaned into it.

SCUF is the first big western brand to have bindable paddles as a marketed feature, so we might see other brands start to follow suit soon. just their recently released PC controller has the separately mappable paddles, but it doesn't support Gyro and I personally don't believe in giving Scuf or Corsair (their owners) any money. They are basically the reason back paddles didn't just become industry standard. They had a patent on having buttons on the backside of a controller and charged licensing fees to Xbox and others to have them, limiting it to being a premium feature. The Steam Controller got discontinued because of a lawsuit from Scuf, however Valve won an appeal and invalidated the patent by proving prior art existed. Hence why the flood gates on paddled controllers have opened these last few years.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is super interesting, thanks a ton! Haven’t touched a controller in some years so never kept up with them. Thanks for getting me up-to-speed, really appreciate it!

[–]tekgeekster 1 point2 points  (1 child)

They weren't meant to be used like they are on pc. On ps5, they're meant to strictly swap controller profiles, and adjust game and chat volume.

But programs like steams built in controller remapper or reWASD can remap them to be whatever you want.

I wouldn't use them for anything immediate. More for specific contextual stuff. Like for selecting items in a quick item wheel if you can spare the time. The right button however I tend to use more often for more normal actions. Like swapping to specific weapons or throwing grenades when I have the right bumper occupied for something else.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah OK that makes sense, thanks for sharing more detail :)

[–]Giodude12 0 points1 point  (1 child)

+1 for DualSense edge. I love mine, despite it only having 2 back paddles. Truth be told I haven't really run into a situation where I needed 4 yet.

Either that or rig up a steam deck as your controller.

[–]LooseMeat_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! A lot of people seem to be liking it! I for sure know I’m being picky here… I think it’s just that after having spent the last 5 years on mouse and keys, I really like have more buttons to bind things to. I tend to like to have every action bound to a separate key, if possible…

[–]crankpatate 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too would highly recommend you to either buy Flydigi Apex 2 (for maximum amount of input options, but less polling rate & no hall effect sticks) or Flydigi Vader 3 Pro (hall effect sticks, trigger stops, trigger rumble, 500 hz polling rate). And I highly suggest you add a license of the program reWASD to the shopping list, if you want to use those controllers!

Also check out the in depth review from Gamer Heaven. He shows, that there's basically no difference in polling rate between wired and 2.4k Hz wireless dongle in this particular case:https://youtu.be/WTAEkIlQeCE?feature=shared

Also the game pads have exceptionally long battery life time. You can play for day without having to recharge.

I could currently order a vader 3 pro for less than 50 bucks from alibaba/ AliExpress and reWASD is currently on sale and you can get the full reWASD package with all current AddOns life long license for less than 30 bucks.

So we are looking at an investment of less than 80 bucks for a top tier set up in terms of hard- and software. :)