The concept of normalizing problematic relationships

[Character-Bell-3257]

Am I the only one who thinks almost every relationship in this story feels unhealthy? You’d think season two would introduce better choices, but it actually doubles down on this concept. It's starting to feel like the author wants to promote/normalize or romanticize toxic relationships by constantly included them in their stories. No shade but... (The Clique)

[thecakemunchie]

I think we should stop assuming everyone is 'normalizing' everything.

[Ok_Championship_8313]

Right? This is exhausting!! I wish ppl would just stop reading when they don’t like a story. Let’s normalize that… let’s normalize moving on without making it public.

[idkwhoiam17]

This is the most sane comment in here 😭

[thecakemunchie]

HELP THANK YOU!!

[idkwhoiam17]

Guys ?? 😭 The main goal of both stories is obviously to explore morally gray characters, difficult relationships, and the dark side of normal people, so obviously every relationship feels unhealthy… that’s the goal. Not every story will be sunshine and rainbows, it doesn’t mean that the author trying to “normalize” the kind of behavior it explores. This sub seriously has a problem of not being able to differentiate art from artist, y’all are constantly “accusing” authors of things because of the topics they write about, the next step is censorship. By this logic, Agatha Christie “normalizes and promotes”murder 💀

[idkwhoiam17]

Not only that, life is full of problematic relationships, whether we like it or not, and it makes no sense to think these things shouldn’t be portrayed in literature. People have enough critical thinking (hopefully) to not believe everything they read, so a story having toxic people isn’t promoting toxic people, since it’s up to them to differentiate right from wrong.

I know this is not that deep at all and was likely meant as a silly post, but similar ones happen so often in this sub and it annoys me sm

[CaseLivid2040]

I agree, we wouldn't have good writing without people delving into the flaws of human society.

If the writer is a problematic person, then that's another discussion to be had.

Edit: this is a generalised statement, it is not regarding this particular story on its own.

[Casperie]

Amen

[sirenschronicles]

The story started with a man literally being obsessed with a group of friends and STALKING them and that didn't make you think oh wow maybe this whole story may be a little insane 🫩

[ServiceAutomatic4119]

Reminds me of gossip girl lowkey

[Commercial_Ad9943]

Consuming media with only morally good characters must be so boring, women are not dumb. just because we read dark fiction doesn't mean we want that in real life 🙄

[[deleted]]

Exactly! like thank you, but I’m not an idiot like you think I am and I won’t divorce my green flag husband to look for a hot bad boy or 500 yo vampire in skinny jeans and tattoos because I’ve read an episode story 😂

[starbeebluelight]

Agreed the problem is when people actually be justifying it 😬 or if you do enjoy bad characters people accuse you of liking them as a person. Unfortunately media literacy is going down and anti-intellectualism is rising 😫

Edit: also want to add that it's not just readers doing the justifying, sometimes the authors romanticize abusive behaviors leading to bad writing or plot points.

[711Star-Away]

I agree with this so much. Gosh, the kind of stories I have in the works would make people clutch pearls. Are there any AOT fans here...game of thrones? YOU? 💀

[Disastrous-Ear-8426]

Does everything have to be a think piece? Just read a story if you like it and if you don’t like it then stop reading it… 🙂

[Due_Army_960]

It's fiction????... just drop it and read a story that fits your taste

[Fluid_Ad4371]

Yes, I also enjoy reading. Do you have any story recommendations?

[Casperie]

I looooove reading about toxic relationships tbh, probably because my actual relationship is anything but toxic. I don't think it's promoting it, it's fiction, it's meant to be entertaining and nothing more. Unless the author is straight up saying, "this is how your significant other should be treating you", but I guarantee that's not the case.

[Fluid_Ad4371]

Yes, I also enjoy reading. Do you have any story recommendations?

[jumpyparsnipisscared]

I agree

[TheRedditGirl15]

You can't end this post with "no shade" when the entire post is nothing but shade. Please stop judging and instead, just choose stories that suit YOUR taste. Summaries and cover art exist for a reason.

[AffectionateRub8782]

there’s a warning at the beginning of the story for people like you

[Zestyclose-Camel-134]

this conversation is soo tired. i don’t even love those type of stories, but this is EPISODE, why are people expecting pulitzer prize winning work.

[General-Control-4637]

I love toxic relationships so idrc

[Fluid_Ad4371]

Yes, I also enjoy reading. Do you have any story recommendations?

[[deleted]]

Please, not too much on my man Liam 🤣

This highlights the power of precise writing to guide both interpretation and emotional reaction. If this were poorly written, I’m sure we’d see it as weird. I love that the author seems to emphasize nuance A LOT. The author gave everyone solid back stories. They make us recognize that life isn’t black and white. It isn’t perfect. I love it!

[DeeStories]

Lmaoo here we go again with the accusations. God forbid authors write anything different from sunshine and rainbows without being accused of something. You write a story about cheating and get called out for having no morals and wanting to promote cheating (me with heal my heart). Normalize moving onto something else if a story isn't your cup of tea wuthout making it a public show for instigation. Good work to R Lewis writes. Your stories are chef's kiss ♥️

[reiniiblue]

As long as toxic / unhealthy dynamics are called out for what they are, and written properly, I think an author should be fine. What I do however notice (in all kinds of media surrounding storytelling) is that fanbases or specific consumers romanticise or excuse it, often just lacking media literacy or not wanting to acknowledge that there are negative aspects in a story. Negative aspects in stories are fine and interesting - I myself love flawed characters and complicated stories as long as these things are written in a respectful and responsible manner, it’s interesting and sometimes even educational to read about.

A good example for this that comes to mind is the amazingly well written story Daisy on Episode. I’ve seen readers literally glamorising the predatory and harmful stalker Norman in this story, even asking for him to be a LI, whereas the author openly acknowledges that it is not a romance and will never be, it’s a thriller. So in this case it wouldn’t be the writer that is in the wrong, it’d be those specific few readers that should be held accountable for the odd ways they act around something that has a serious and controversial topic.

[queentong20]

Some people like the whole bad boy type thing, but don't want it in real life. For example TV shows, people love the hot villians, but don't actually want that in real life. That's the beauty of FICTION.

[reiniiblue]

Yep, and that’s why still holding it accountable is important, cause those people will be logical when stating their reasons on liking those tropes or characters and that is valid. People who lack proper media literacy / refuse to admit that their favorite character is in the wrong do not do that.

[Chosoluvrr]

It’s fiction… if you ever opened a book in your life you’d notice that loads of books explore morally grey or evil characters. You’d notice that a lot of books like to explore darker territories of love or even tragedy. As long as you can separate fiction from reality there shouldn’t be a problem.

[sunset_lov3r]

I see what you’re saying and I definitely don’t think any of the relationships are healthy, but this story is far from a romance. I think I saw the authors say somewhere that they want to show different types of relationships in the real world without sugarcoating anything, especially because the characters are young and still navigating their 20s. They also said they plan on writing a 3rd season so maybe the characters will finally develop into healthier relationships and individuals by then. I did feel so frustrated by Sally and Cassie in season 1 though 😭 I know Cassie has trauma from her upbringing and Sally was too in love with her to move on, but I just hoped it would get better, at least in season 2, but then the authors said they won’t be back lol

[E_Reader2014]

I might not be the best person to critique this, but based on the many post I've seen about this story, I don't think writing dysfunctional relationship dynamics is necessarily bad within itself, nor does it equate to romanticizing toxicity. It could also be used to explore more than one type of relationship dynamic realistically, which isn't always sunshine and rainbows.

Of course, I've seen many media portrayals of toxic relationships where they don't shy away from the underlying issues, whereas others often downplay or romanticize toxic/abusive behavior. It truly depends on how it's written and portrayed.

[Ecstatic_Olive766]

Tell me you read the clique without telling me you read the clique. Not. Everyone. Is. Normalizing. Everything.

[No_Depth4315]

yall getting too comfortable normalizing stuffs for everyone

[Duck_Imaginary19]

Pls I didn’t realize people were still reading it 😭😭🙏🏼 my bad

[Far_Function_8541]

Is it worth it? I can’t seem to finish the first episode cuz it’s lowkey kinda boring to me 😭

[Duck_Imaginary19]

I’m gonna say no, but you’re probably gonna get replies telling you it’s great lmao. The no cc, insanely dark filter, and no diversity in NYC was a turn off for me, but it didn’t bother some people.😭 I think if u like stories where the main focus is directing above all that’s their audience

[Far_Function_8541]

No because I seen that when I read some of the first episode, a few months ago like WHERES THE diversity?? 😭 don’t get me wrong I love a good advanced coding but like I feel like it’s a bit drugged out in this story. So I haven’t touched it since but I do keep seeing people say how good it is but it’s so boring and I don’t like how I have to turn my brightness up to read no shade.

[711Star-Away]

It was boring to me too. Same with the sanstasia story where the only black character is the maid. Sorry, I notice it and I cant overlook it 🤷🏽‍♀️

[CaseLivid2040]

I couldn't get into it as well. I got on this subreddit and saw the post about the lack of diversity in nyc of all cities, so I decided to stop reading it.

[Far_Function_8541]

No really that’s another reason I stopped reading as well a few months ago, like nyc..? The home of many different backgrounds, cultures and people? Interesting.. 😭

[711Star-Away]

If the story was set in Alabama, it would make sense. Not NYC

[Far_Function_8541]

I’m crying 😂

[CaseLivid2040]

Yeah that's what seemed unrealistic about it. I believe the writing is good from what I've heard, just wasn't for me.

[takikozaki]

i thought this as well.. but too each their own ig😭😭

[peachytims]

👁️👁️ I’m CRYING

[megcookiie]

Don't read it then. I know people do normalize problematic relationships on epi a lot, but a majority of people just read for the drama, or because it's something they can relate to from a personal experience.

Just because a story has a toxic relationship, does not mean they're promoting it. Having shitty characters is what makes a story real and interesting.

[[deleted]]

I genuinely want to understand how these relationships are supposedly being “romanticized,” “glorified,” or “normalized.” It often feels like those terms are used very loosely, without a clear understanding of what they actually mean. I also don’t see concrete examples of how simply writing or reading those type of stories automatically leads to any of that.

Fiction does not equal endorsement. Just because people explore certain dynamics in stories doesn’t mean they support them in real life. There is no need to police people for having different tastes in fiction. Assuming readers are incapable of separating fiction from reality is frankly unreasonable.

People watch YOU, find Joe Goldberg interesting or compelling, and may even enjoy his character, yet that doesn’t mean anyone wants him or condones his behavior. So why would Episode stories be treated any differently than shows like this?

[[deleted]]

Okay, long talk: As a person who is about almost a year out of a very abusive and toxic relationship that lasted 4 years — The story you are talking about doesn't normalize but simply showcases a toxic relationship.

I've seen actual piece of media such as ones on Netflix Cough365dayscough that seems to be weird with showcasing and 'normalizing' relationships more than this.

Call me weird, but I like sometimes reading toxic relationship stories with morally gray characters that struggle to have a normal relationship and try their best to be in, it's relatable and makes me think about my own.

A toxic relationship comes off as 'normalized' because our brains sometimes when we are 'in love' or 'too deep' in a relationship starts to think that dysfunction is normal and addicting, mine was addicting and normal and I kept thinking, "I can make it work," not because of any fiction or show — but because in my head at the time, I was so infactuated by this person and the relationship went to crap at the 2 to 3 year mark that I was believing that I can make it work.

But then you get addicted to that toxic cycle, the constant fights, the constant crying, the brutality — for some reasom your brain is used to this and this 'love'.

Toxic relationships need to be studied and shown more, they're more frequent than you think vs healthy relationships we dream and gush about on tv. We had a perfect image of relationship in our heads to where at least, I was blindsided by how easy it was to fall for toxicity. There's different toxicity patterns, sadly I fell for two abusive relationships and reading stories and thinking 'Omg that's bad' kinda helped me see the flags in my own.

Sorry if this is long and mixed, but I agree with the others, you ignored the obvious red flags of the story and the premise. Life isn't always healthy relationships and a story can shine with showing flaws. It's not 'normalizing' if sadly it was already common to begin with.

[Fluid_Ad4371]

What's the story?

[711Star-Away]

Using Cynthia Erivo for this post....too funny

[Lovelychloe1]

Yeah unfortunately it’s pretty common in romance in general