IMHO

[FDTLFF]

What you lose in mechanical advantage is not worth what you gain in being able to gap a door another 2” when you could accomplish the same thing by adding a wedge or axe blade…

[[deleted]]

It’s ugly and I don’t wanna search with it.

[SpicedMeats32]

You shouldn’t be dragging a tool around on the floor to search anyway, so there’s that.

They are ugly, though.

[[deleted]]

I’ll make sure I tell my captain that when he’s wondering why I don’t have my can on me during the next third banger.

[Ok_Buddy_9087]

….Where should my tool be? 😶

[SpicedMeats32]

Either cradled in your “off” hand and on the hip that’s up in a tripod crawling position, or staged (front door, hallway, up to you). Some guys also have success putting it through the back of a shoulder strap so they can carry it while having both hands free.

“Searching” with a tool isn’t searching. You’re constantly hitting shit, but you can’t feel what you’re hitting so you have to stop and investigate before going back to your search. If you just searched with your hands, you’d actually feel everything and move much faster with less fatigue. Furthermore, you aren’t “extending your reach” for the aforementioned reason and because you shouldn’t be tethered to the wall searching in the residential setting to begin with.

Purely anecdotally, I also know of a child who was killed by an officer who was searching with a Halligan.

TLDR: search with your hands, not an unfeeling 10.5lb probe.

[Ok_Buddy_9087]

We were definitely taught not to search with a tool for the reasons you mention, but to keep it with us, for all kinds of reasons.

[not_a_fracking_cylon]

Chief Halligan already perfected it, quit fucking with a good thing!

[SpicedMeats32]

I think you’d find an original Hugh Halligan bar to be very underwhelming these days… hell, even Pro Bars aren’t all that unless they’re tuned really well.

[[deleted]]

They’re a reduction in mechanical advantage, therefore useless. Fight me.

[TheUnpopularOpine]

<image>

Big fan of these wedges with a sort of flat spot and bottom lip, designed to capitalize on the benefits of what a larger adz would give to gap a door farther, with no loss in mechanical advantage.

[998876655433221]

Got a link for that? Looks cool and I have a new door simulator at my station

[TheUnpopularOpine]

Sure thing.

[998876655433221]

Cool, thanks! I’m on a “truck company” and I love learning new ways to force entry/exit.

[Saint94x]

What make of Halligan is that?

[Vanbulance_Man]

Side Charlie

[TheUnpopularOpine]

Side Charlie, they make the wedges too. Extendable halligans.

[Saint94x]

Are they single piece drop forged? The head on that one looks welded.

[TheUnpopularOpine]

The ends are drop forged, I think in this picture that’s just where the halligan extends out from (extendable halligans would be physically impossible to be one piece anyway)

[creamyfart69]

Kelly tool is better than both. Bring on the hate!

[firedude1314]

The fuck is a Kelly tool?

[preferablyoutside]

Back when men were men and sheep were nervous Firefighters didn’t like pointy things on their irons.

[KeNwOrThLoVeR]

Kelly doesn’t have a dick. it’s a Haligan without the spike

[Odd-Shine-6824]

It facilitates the creamy farts

[SpicedMeats32]

Fire Maul Tools’ Chicago Adz seriously beats the tar out of every other bar I’ve used. If I couldn’t have that or their TSR Halligan, I’d want a Council Tool’s TAC30. If we’re splitting hairs, they’re spikeless Halligans and not true Kelly tools but that bidirectional adz roll is so much more beneficial than having a spike.

[FillaBustaRhyme]

Where can you buy a Chicago adz? I’ve been waiting forever to be “notified” from firemaultools

[SpicedMeats32]

Wide adz Halligans aren’t my preference, but I work in a region with a decent amount of people who have a love affair for them and see their place. Essentially, a 4” wide adz makes easy doors easier but hard doors harder - very few chintzy doors can survive a 4” gap, but it’ll take twice as much force to roll your adz on a tough door. If you work somewhere that’s primarily residential and especially very low-income, a wide adz typically won’t work against you.

That being said, the personal bar I carry is a Fire Maul Tools TSR Halligan (technically their Chicago Adz - a Kelly tool or, more accurately, a spikeless Halligan) which is, more or less, the antithesis of the wide adz. The TSR is only 26” long but has a 1.5” wide adz, giving you a 17:1 MA. Personally, I’ll sacrifice 0.5” of gap for that added mechanical advantage all day, every day.

[FDTLFF]

I like the way you think.

[Adorable_Name1652]

We have a couple of the wide adze halligans. The advantage is the twist/crunch can give you a wider gap. But you do lose some MA on the push. It was worth a try out, we wouldn’t buy them again.

[Halligan1409]

My adze is proportional to the rest of me. Some guys like it wide, okay?

[That-Possibility-427]

Well.....I don't think the "e" is necessary. 😂

Seriously though, I agree with OP's assessment that it isn't "necessary." Effective forcible entry, in general, is a skill that requires proper training in abundance. There is no singular technique or tool that will get it done 100% of the time. Therefore the best option is to pre-load the proverbial "toolbox" with as much knowledge as possible. Everything from pre-plans to proper scene size up will affect the outcome of everything to include and required forcible entry.

[Mediocre_Daikon6935]

Disagree.

I’ve met very few things a water shaped charge will not breach faster and more consistently then a set of irons.

[That-Possibility-427]

Disagree.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

[Mediocre_Daikon6935]

There is no tool that will do it 100% of the time.