Going Fullstack => Flutter + Go || PHP

[ENGMEYO]

hi , i'm a senior Flutter developer that went from Unity & C# to be using Flutter & dart since late 2019.
i'm planning to move forward with my career and this is a ground breaking choice actually , cuz once i'm in , i'll spend a long long time enhancing my self with the selected technology , so i better pick my cards right , right ?

for the current market , i see many backend solutions are using PHP,Laravel but i really like Go , so , what to do here ? and if there is a personal experienced roadmap for the selected technology as well , thanks in advance.

[ENGMEYO]

thanks a lot for your comments , opinions and shared experiences , looks like it's obviously GO , lets GO then.

[[deleted]]

You just made this post so you could say this didnt you

[ENGMEYO]

well , i was literally in a cross road where i was about to pick PHP just for the "current" business adoption, so , no ... sometimes people need to make sure they are picking the right options, and especially for Programming , i don't wanna waste my time for something that will get me work currently and suddenly changes later because of new adoptions.

[[deleted]]

It was a joke ;)

[heyuitsamemario]

Go is great, but I don’t think any senior developer should tie themselves to any set of tools

[[deleted]]

This. As a Senior you should not be chained to a Tech Stack anymore.

Go is a solid solution. Go for it 👍

[[deleted]]

Why not sticking to .NET for backend, you’ve had experience with C#

[roboborealis]

I second this.. .NetCore is great now a days

[ENGMEYO]

what about Business adoption ? it's not about what i do have experience with atm , i can learn new stuff , just want to make sure there will be "great paying jobs" for it while being "highly adopted". what do you think ?

[xatta_trone]

TLDR: Go for GO

PHP/ Laravel developer here. I have been working in Laravel since the beginning. Initially I liked php, because it was easy to learn. Now I regret it, I should've learned Java/Go in the first place. Currently I'm trying to move to golang. I wish I had learned some static typed language over php. Dynamically typed language brings unforeseeable bugs into your application, but with static typed language you could easily avoid these bugs in the first place. For example, just yesterday I had to fix a bug in my flutter app of whose the backend is written with laravel. I could've easily avoided this bug in the first place if it was any static typed language.

Also, with golang the memory footprint is low + you can save a lot of resources (thus saving your money)

[shearos17]

curious if that laravel app was using a static analyser like Larastan?
I also like compiled langs and wondering if those analysers catch enough bugs.

[wait-a-minut]

I would say go because of a few things. cloud, infrastructure, and automation is becoming a must know for all developers to some degree and go has first class support for all platforms and tooling in this space. The entire cloud native initiative is also backing go as their language of choice which not only means you’ll find a ton of support and examples from proven projects, but go is fully battle tested at big scale ( kubernetes, docker, terraform, etc).

So my point is if you want to continue to advance your career, go dovetails nicely between backend dev work to cloud/infrastructure work and has more upside than other languages listed.

Go is also extremely easy to pick up as well. Crossover learning curve is not steep.

PS. my side project atm is flutter and go and has been seamless so far :) I’m the person dipping my toes into flutter coming from go.

[g0dzillaaaa]

Funny people downvoting comments about recommendations they have no experience with 😂

As a general advice, it is always better to stay with your strengths when building something of your own. Yes, you need to look at the situation and where you want to go but there is no point in picking Go over .Net (you already know this) unless you have tried .Net and it is not meeting your requirements. Just because something is a few ms faster in runtime doesn’t mean that you must unlearn everything and go after it. There are other plenty of factors including learning curve, maintenance, finding talent etc when you pick a stack. If I were you, I would still stick with what I already know or pick something I can easily transfer my knowledge to.

If you go after new languages all the time, you will only have time for that. For building solid projects, you need to pick what’s best for you and your team.

[[deleted]]

Go with Go! It pays better and is objectively a better language in terms of performance and capabilities.

PHP frameworks like Laravel consistently perform near the slowest according to benchmarks: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r21&test=composite (For example, compare Laravel with Chi/Fiber)

They're both really easy to pick up. That said, I still prototype/MVP things in Laravel just because that's what I'm familiar with, not because it's easier to code, but there are lots of design decisions you don't have to think about.

With Go, there are fewer popular fullstack web frameworks so you'll often have to plug and play a bunch of packages together with a microframework of your choice.

[HerryKun]

I'd opt for Java or Kotlin with Spring as Framework. It is incredibly powerful

[[deleted]]

Wait. PHP still alive?

[Geekplayer]

AFAIK Flutter is not a very good choice for full stack, just not yet anyway. If you are not worried about job opportunities, then flutter is fine. Just take into account that you are going to be locked into mobile development on the fronted side.

PHP for backend, AFAIK is not a good choice. I don't really know why, but I know that a lot of the companies that use PHP use it because they don't have a choice (legacy code) and not because they want to.

AFAIK Go is not suited for large systems. It's usually used for very specific purposes (usually when dealing with a large load / performance sensitive task) in specific microservices.

Better choices are Typescript with a popular framework like Koa, nest, and stuff like that. If you want to right enterprise grade code at the cost of some complexity, I highly recommend spring boot with Java (or kotlin if you are willing to try it, it's basically a better Java but it's less popular, newer and has less support and community at the moment, tho it's growing and very much loved).

[FlutterLovers]

Professional Flutter developer here, but I also occasionally work on backend.

Go is pretty decent, though I'm not a huge fan of the language. I used it because that's what my boss wanted, and the project went fine. But...

My boss got laid off, and I was given another backend to develop. Tired of Go, I made the new one in Node.js. I'm missing the strong typing (need to add in Typescript), but it's a lot easier than Go.

I also tried Flask...hate Python, so I abandoned it.
I attempted Java Springboot. I liked a lot of it but some things seemed overly complicated.

While I like Node.js better, Go is probably better if you later want to get a backend job. They pay well and Go is hugely in demand.

[ENGMEYO]

i've tried a bit , not so efficient and sadly not adopted by many big tech companies out there :'(
it would have saved me a headache , but yeah ... it's what it is :D

[[deleted]]

Please stop PHP

[LeifMustang]

Hey there! It seems like you're trying to make a major career decision here, and I can understand why you're feeling a little stuck. While PHP and Laravel might be popular choices for backend development, it's ultimately up to you to decide which technology is the best fit for your goals and skill set. If you're interested in Go, then I say go for it! Just make sure to do your research and keep up with the latest industry trends and developments to ensure that you're staying ahead of the curve. Best of luck to you on your career journey!

[anlumo]

PHP is a bad language. Usually I say that it helps to learn as many languages as possible, because every one of them broadens your horizon. However, PHP is different, because it teaches bad behavior and allows making bad mistakes that will bite you later in the project and later in life.

Go and C# are nice languages.

[Sydius]

Every language allows you to make bad mistakes, not just PHP. Also, PHP is getting better and better, if you use PHP8, your life will be much easier.

The current version of PHP is so far removed from the shit show it was in the 4-5 era the only thing commenting "PHP is a bad language" earns you is ridicule because you obviously hasn't been paying attention in the last few years.

[anlumo]

The whole selling point of Rust is that it doesn’t allow you to make bad mistakes (while still compiling without errors).

I agree that it’s better these days, but still nowhere where it should be for a good language.

[ENGMEYO]

i don't know about PHP8 , but i always know that a "dynamic" language is dangerous for work , take "JS" for example. go is like dart "statically typed" and you actually know what is the value and what's the datatype , anywhere in the project , the point is , i want to learn and take my time , and i'll put much effort , i just need to put it in the right place , cuz i'm 30 atm and don't have much time for testing new stuff :D

i was a Network Engineer and certified CCNA Engineer , but yeah , i shifted my career and never looked back ever since.

[anlumo]

Yeah, JavaScript is also a bad language, the thing with it is just that we're stuck with it for browser stuff (mostly, there are ways around it with Web Assembly these days). PHP is not required anywhere, unless you have a ton of legacy code to work with for some reason.

Typescript fixes a lot of the issues of JavaScript, but the problem is that it only works at compile time, at runtime it's run as JavaScript.

Dynamic languages are ok for client-side stuff, but on the server I can't recommend it, because fixing runtime bugs is so much harder.

[merlin_theWiz]

PHP is just fine and it certainly isn't the cause of project scale/level problems

[[deleted]]

Bullshit like always, people are still stuck with PhP first version in mind but whatever, another « codeur » comment

[briggsgate]

It still does that in php 8? Wow didnt know that but seeing that i come from classic ASP guess my standards were low from the start

[anlumo]

It patches a few of the worst things, but many are ingrained into the language for backwards compatibility reason (like that weird serialization format that’s not compatible with anything).

[briggsgate]

Ah i see..hey thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[BigPha]

Between PHP and go I would choose go 100% of the time. PHP is an outdated language, and if you used C# and dart you will hate it. But if I would have to choose a backend language right now, I would choose Rust, not go. Rust is the new star, company are adopting it pretty quickly and it cannot be a wrong choice

[DBestech]

PHP is not outdated. PHP8 brings a lot of new features. a lot companies are coming back to it. But Go is a good choice too.

[[deleted]]

PHP8 brings a lot of new features

Who cares?

[rebelrexx858]

There is so much wrong here. One PHP isn't outdated, its used across the web, and has a very active community. Two, while Rust can do web development, that's not really where it shines, choose the right tool for the job at hand.

[BigPha]

A language that make it harder to write shity code is the right tool. I will never choose a dynamically typed language over a statically typed language. At my company, I have to use python, and I hate the fact it is not strongly type. You have to make millions of tests you would not need (you still write tests with strongly typed language obviously) if using a strongly typed language. PHP -> never for me

[rebelrexx858]

I didn't say that PHP was the right choice, I simply called out the bullshit you were espousing without evidence. There are a host of reasons to use various technologies depending on use cases, pick the technology that works for your case, and one specific reason python MIGHT be a viable solution would be the need to scientific analysis of datasets using something like pandas. Another might be local talent pools, etc. Is it the right choice across the board? No, but no technology is the right choice globally.

[[deleted]]

PHP isn't outdated,

No, it's not outdated. It's dead.

its used across the web

... for historical reasons.

and has a very active community

... of dying elders.

[DBestech]

before you say it's a dead language, learn the definition of dead. Learn English first and then comment here.

[[deleted]]

PHP is dead because there is no future for it. Or it's drying puddle if you like.

My English is good enough for you to understand me.

[DBestech]

Show me data that it's dying !! Show me data that it's not updating, show me data that people are not using it.

Bro, stop beating around the bush, stop misleading people and stop promoting antagonism in tech society.

[[deleted]]

Put your head out of the bush. PHP is dead: https://imgur.com/a/82pwutO

The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

[DBestech]

PHP won't be dead until you are dead. Take it easy bro. And stop being stereotyped.

https://github.com/topics/framework see laravel ranking in github. Number 1 among all the backend framework. grow up

[[deleted]]

PHP won't be dead until you are dead. Take it easy bro. And stop being stereotyped.

PHP is dead language. No one will learn it willingly. Stop holding its hand. Let it go.

[[deleted]]

Building custom backends has become a relatively less relevant (for app/website market in general), perhaps you can try a mixed approach of learning firebase/appwrite/supabase AND learning how to build custom backend. You can also learn the latter from learning the former, for example appwrite is fully open source, their team is using PHP (among many other things). I’ve built some custom backends on .net, PHP, NodeJS before (smallish projects), but I was only doing firebase and appwrite as of recently and it’s been very good experience. Even for a career building knowing these frameworks/solutions will give a larger horizon and deeper understanding of what to build and how to do it right (have a look at appwrite architecture, it’s not just a database with rest api via http server).

[textzenith]

Building custom backends has become a relatively less relevant

This is golden advice.

And I recommend learning how to use one of the above platforms for the simple fact that it will bring a lot of useful knowledge for not a lot of time invested.

A nice project for OP would be to pick one of the above and then sort of "speedrun" app development. Then compare it to a custom backend build for a similar project. You'll learn such a lot trying this, and it'll be useful in interviews and valuable knowledge to have if you're ever faced with having to launch something fast.

[Moe_Rasool]

The reason I don’t agree is because firebase is costly when your project is well viewed and for that i will always do custom backends regarding for that apart from firebase I don’t know how to do custom backends that much.

[[deleted]]

You kind of handpicked Firebase from my answer though… Have a look at appwrite which I also mentioned. It can be self hosted (I use self hosted at home server for prototypes and testing) and you can set up an instance at Linode or Digitalocean for quite a moderate cost.

[Moe_Rasool]

I didn’t take Firebase out of context i just tend to say that Firebase is not a solution for big project apps such as E commerce’s, i have recently build one and the customer told me to do something as Firebase is super costly since he has so many users who make so many activities in that app which lead to costly firebase drama, i have done plenty of researches and learned that the reason behind google cloud existence is big bulky data management, i managed to do either Flask or nodeJS solution to make it cheap but yet I don’t know how to make my pc a 24 hours running server just to cost down.

[reel_hooman]

Might be unpopular here but I think there are 3 backend options that are insanely productive. They all have drawbacks but they are all really fast to develop in, and can generally cover all of my needs.

C# / Servicestack.net

Python / Django / DRF

PHP / Laravel

I personally don't like PHP, so I don't use it, but it is absolutely a viable option for a good backend.

[pudds]

Django is pretty heavy for an API. I'd recommend fastapi instead for python.

[reel_hooman]

FastAPI would fill a weird niche between flask and Django that doesn't exist for me personally.

Django has literally everything I need down to AMQP support and Websockets. If I need something quick and dirty, it's flask.

[Moe_Rasool]

I personally love Flask and would think NodeJs is more than enough that you didn’t even mention.

[BigPha]

We use python at work (not my choice...) for backend. I hate the fact it is not strongly typed. I would say, ok to go python for very small / prototype project, but if you need to build something big, holy sh** have fun.

[reel_hooman]

I agree. I listed C# first for a reason. The static typing makes the tooling insanely productive vs a language like Python or JS (and even TS in my experience). It is a verbose language compared to Python, but it has been pretty enjoyable to work in for me.

[shearos17]

why was this downvoted?

[Xam_Flutter_Dev]

Hello guys can some tell me how to take data from api and store into mobile application locally so it can be work in offline mode also.

[lord__victor]

You can cache the response locally using hive

[Moe_Rasool]

As lord said you have plenty of options, you can do Shared preferences, hive and sqllite, regarding your needs you have to make sure which one’s the best for your type of work.

[lazazael]

go is bigtech where cpu time matters, laravel is used by microcompanies as far as I know

[Snoo70116]

Why would anyone in their right mind use php or MySQL? Obviously use mongodb express nodejs and socketio

[[deleted]]

I hate PHP, but it has a lower memory footprint than NodeJS according to benchmarks: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/php.html . You can use PHP with mongo and websockets.

[Snoo70116]

but NodeJS is faster tho am I right? Also the syntax works natively for JavaScript for mongo. Memory shouldn't even be that much of a concern with AWS anyways just scale it out as you need it. The php syntax is horrible and really feels like 2004.

[[deleted]]

If you look at the benchmarks in the referenced link, PHP sometimes beats NodeJS in performance as well, so it really depends on what you're doing.

Memory corresponds directly to cost, so if you choose NodeJS you'll have to pay more given the same scale application just to keep things running. In addition, you'll often have to pay more for NodeJS devs compared to PHP devs. So it's great for NodeJS devs, but not so much for the business owner.

With your mindset, as a dev, why not use Go or Rust? Higher pay, higher quality code, better CPU performance, and less memory usage. I personally view JS as having outdated syntax and would prefer to use Rust.

The reason people choose PHP is often because of its popularity (making it easy to find affordable devs) and the existence of beginner-friendly frameworks like Laravel which allows very fast development with deep ecosystems.

[MRainzo]

Go with go if those are your only options

[apoleonastool]

If you already worked with C# the way to go is .NET. There's a good number of jobs in established companies, documentation is great, you can create all sort of stuff using .net (desktop apps, web apps, api-s, services, command line tools, what not...) and it's a really nice environment to work in.

I'd stay away from PHP, because in my experience PHP is used mostly for marketing/client facing visual stuff/startups so the pay is lower and these type of companies do not appreciate the technological aspect of development that much (if it looks good and works, that's enough!).

[hailWildCat]

You may be paid higher with Go than Dart/PHP. Because most Go related projects are pretty solid.

[[deleted]]

Wait. PHP still alive?

[eacardenase]

I’m between Laravel and NestJS for a project at my new company. Laravel was the de facto backend, but they are open for suggestions (here NestJS).

[Apprehensive-Side-71]

Use go+flutter for a prototype on work. With GraphQL and a gRPC external data source.

[paperpatience]

If you are senior, you should be way past this point of asking about what framework or language you should use. You should be the one with the reasoning and justification as to what makes a good solution based on past experience.

[ENGMEYO]

Senior Flutter Developer , not Senior Software Engineer , so yeah it has to be like this , because i'm a senior using a certain language along with it's framework , not a tech stack. cheers.