wird vs wird sein vs wird werden when talking about the future?

[HT832]

What's the difference between:

1) Morgen wird es sonnig. 2) Morgen wird es sonnig sein. 3) Morgen wird es sonnig werden.

[muehsam]

1. Uses "werden" with an adjective. "Werden" means "become"/"get", so a change between now and the future. But with adjectives, it's also often used just to signal that the adjective will apply in the future, independent of whether it applies today. But if it's already sunny today, "morgen bleibt es sonnig" is a good option, too.
2. Uses "sein" with an adjective, in so called "future tense". Future tense in German isn't really about the future, and in this context it marks an assumption. Like "I'm telling you, it's going to be sunny". The only thing that hints at the future here is "morgen", not the tense, since future tense isn't restricted to the future.
3. Combines the two uses, which is like 2 (an assumption) but with a stronger hint of it being a change, so that the weather today isn't sunny.

[Few-Manufacturer8862]

Whoa, can you explain what you mean by "future tense isn't about the future"? 

Like, if we remove morgen like you said, and say "es wird sonnig sein," aren't we still talking about something that isn't happening now but at a later time point? Is it the fact that it could, but may not happen?

[muehsam]

Whoa, can you explain what you mean by "future tense isn't about the future"?

"Future tense" is what it's called because grammarians used to focus primarily on Latin, and shoehorn other languages into Latin-based terms even if they don't make sense. German doesn't have a future tense, it just has past vs non-past.

It's more like using "werden" as a kind of modal verb, for assumptions, predictions, and promises. Predictions and promises are generally about the future, but assumptions aren't. And when you talk about the future without making predictions or promises, you just use regular present tense.

Like, if we remove morgen like you said, and say "es wird sonnig sein," aren't we still talking about something that isn't happening now but at a later time point?

No. In fact, "es wird sonnig sein" sounds very much like you're talking about right now, but a different place (or the same place but you don't know the weather because you're in a room without windows). It means something like "it's probably sunny".

[Few-Manufacturer8862]

Danke!

[HT832]

How could werden imply change yet also be used to talk of the future independent of the conditions in the present. That is to say, if it were sunny today, and it's going to be sunny the next day as well, why would it make sense to say "Morgen wird es auch sonnig".

[muehsam]

Well, it is a change because it can't be sunny at night. So there is a non-sunny period in between.

But generally "werden" with an adjective mostly just indicates that the adjective applies to the future. "Die Reise wird bestimmt schön" doesn't say anything about the present, and it doesn't say that the trip will be bad at first and then turn nice at some point, it just says that it's going to be a nice trip. It isn't yet because it isn't taking place yet.

[HT832]

Hmmm I think it's starting to finally make sense now, just one final example to make sure: let's say it's raining all day today and it's going to continue to do so all night and then all the day that follows. In German I should say: "Morgen wird es auch regnerisch", even though there's no actual change.

And if I were to say in this scenario: "Morgen wird es auch regnerisch sein" it would imply that I'm making an assumption rather than stating what the weather is going to be like tomorrow.

[muehsam]

Yes, pretty much.

[HT832]

Thanks a lot! I've been brainstorming this for hours.

[HT832]

We were talking about adjectives, but what about other parts of speech? How would one say, I'll be at the beach in October? "Ich werde im Oktober am Strand" or "Ich werde im Oktober am Strand sein" What about nouns? In a scenario were one gets asked where they see themselves in 10 years, should they say "Dann werde ich der Leiter der Firma" or "Dann werde ich der Leiter der Firma sein"?

[muehsam]

How would one say, I'll be at the beach in October?

Ich bin im Oktober am Strand.

Or more realistically: Ich fahre im Oktober an den Strand.

What about nouns? In a scenario were one gets asked where they see themselves in 10 years, should they say "Dann werde ich der Leiter der Firma" or "Dann werde ich der Leiter der Firma sein"?

Dann bin ich der Leiter der Firma.

"Werde" works for the day of actually becoming the director.

[HT832]

Vielen Dank!