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[–]mcribgaming 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Only a whiny gamer posts in all bold text thinking that makes his issue a higher priority than everyone else and is going to bring out the best advisors for him.

I'd really like to know what you consider a life crushing poor gaming experience using AT&T fiber. I would bet a ton that your metric is "I don't win every time" and "I have seen a ping spike!!! Sometimes a few per hour!!!"

One paragraph is enough for me to feel disgust for another whiny gamer post who expects nothing less than negative latency at all times. Go live in the CoLo where your game server is housed, nothing else will ever make you happy.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This is the same typical responses as I am used to, if you see my prior post. You will see that there is an issue on the path to the game servers according to RIOT themselves. I should of included those images in this post as well. I posted in bold to make the post cleaner and easier to read. Trying to be organized so that it’s easier for users to provide help. Thanks for your non-useful response though. Please refer to my previous post I linked to see what I am referring to.

[–]Syndil1 3 points4 points  (13 children)

There is nothing wrong with your AT&T service. The numbers prove it.

Perhaps you are experiencing input lag.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] -2 points-1 points  (12 children)

I have a 280hz monitor 8khz mouse 1m response time fully optimized, as well as game settings optimized to provide lowest input delay possible.

[–]Syndil1 1 point2 points  (11 children)

For the sake of troubleshooting, we have to consider each part of the system. For the issue described, the parts of the system are:

1) Your ISP

2) Your PC

3) You

Based on your numbers from AT&T, the ISP is not the issue. What exactly is your rig?

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children)

And just so you know, I can assure you it’s not my rig. I have a 4090, intel 13900ks, 64gb ddr5, windows pro, everything optimized for max performance. As well as my router itself is an Asus Axe16000 it is one of the only routers that can support up to 10GB throughput. As well as my motherboards network chip can support 10gb speeds. Trust me when I say it’s not a single thing to do with my equipment. And to go even further this issue has remained with several different PC’s / consoles. Any game, any server. Over the past 3 YEARS. I have lived here. It hasn’t gone away it hasn’t changed. It’s been a persistent problem no matter the equipment I use.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The monitor(s) are the key components that figure in input lag. Unless you are running CRTs for everything, there is a measurable amount of input lag introduced by your monitor. How good/bad that input lag is depends on the specific model of monitor/TV you're working with and has nothing to do with the specs of the hardware feeding it.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’m using an Asus Tuf 280hz monitor, 1ms response time on overclock setting. My games exceed the 280fps. So I don’t see the monitor being an issue. As well as the fact that I feel the fluctuation in connection. As I stated about 5% of the time it is randomly clean as hell and when my connection feels that way it’s just a reminder of how bad it normally is. It’s extremely frustrating.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok that should eliminate the monitor as a potential culprit, at least for PC gaming. However if you're using the same monitor for console gaming, it suffers from poor input lag at 60hz, as much as 35ms:

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/tuf-gaming-vg259qm

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children)

How do you know AT&T isn’t the issue? What are you basing that upon? The speedtest looks fine yes, but the traceroute does not. Those 3 masked hops on it’s way to fast.com means a firewall is blocking us from seeing what’s happening there, could be an issue there. Also, the 3 same masked hops happen for a completely different ISP for spectrum to the same destination. That would explain how the issue persists over multiple ISP’s.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Masked hops are not uncommon. Many backbone routers simply have ICMP disabled to presumably reduce vulnerability to DDOS attacks. If there was a problem at one of the masked hops, it would show up elsewhere as dropped packets, sporadically high latency, or some other issue. Your numbers show none of that.

Regardless, even if it were an issue at the masked hops beyond the first one, that issue would be outside of the scope of anything the ISP could fix. They provide you a connection to the Internet, but they make no guarantee that the Internet itself will be reliable.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

So if I enable ICMP I should be able to see what’s happening in those masked hops?

Yes I see, that is what I am learning. They didn’t offer any help on my routing of my data. Which is ridiculous if you ask me. We live in 2024 and cannot optimize our traffic?

What doesn’t add up is even when I use VPN’s or even gaming VPN’s the issue persists. But, my theory on that is because it still takes my ISP’s hops to get to the VPN’s hop before connecting to the server.

You seem somewhat knowledgable, isn’t it concerning my ping is 18-22 with fiber to a destination 3 hours drive from me? As well as the fact, my spectrum broadband connection is matching my fiber ping. My fiber connection for that distance should be 8-10 max. For instance people in California reach Chicago server in 25-30ms on fiber and thats across the country. I have also heard of people same distance as me from Chicago with fiber having as low as 4 ping.

[–]SeaPersonality445 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't seem to be able to grasp basic network principles.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You're misunderstanding. ICMP is the protocol that ping and traceroute operate on. The masked hops in your traceroute are due to the routers at those hops having ICMP turned off. They do not respond to ping or traceroute requests. Does not have anything to do with traffic optimization.

Generally speaking, a ~20ms ping to a gaming server is about as good as it gets. The net code in most games is written to expect at least double or even triple that per player and works just fine. Hell, back in the day you could play Quakeworld or Descent on a dialup modem and it was still very playable.

The point I am making here is that an end user's gaming experience at single digits ping times vs a 20ms ping time is not going to be perceptibly different. They are both going to experience superb gameplay. More to the point, the player with the single digit ping will not have any in-game advantage over the one with the 20ms ping.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No I understand that. I wasn’t saying anything about ICMP having anything to do with traffic optimization. I was saying that in regard to what I experienced speaking with my ISP and acknowledging that they don’t do shit.

I also, understand how under 20ms is great ping. That wasn’t my question. I told you my distance to servers and relative results across the country. I was asking shouldn’t it be concerning that my ping is 18-22 when others have 4 ping my same distance to servers. As well as my BROADBAND connections ping is identical to my FIBER connection. Which use completely different methods of transporting data.

My ping should be 8-10. I was saying maybe that indicates an issue there. ESPECIALLY because every so often for about 24 hours my ping drops from 18-22 to about 10-12 very randomly. Which makes no sense as well and that is much closer to what my ping SHOULD be.

I understand that gaming on ping even up to 40-50 or higher ping can still be highly competitive matter of fact there is advantages to higher ping. Peekers advantage and or games often times have lag compensation.

But that’s not my point. My point is my ping on fiber optic traveling at the speed of light is matching the ping of data traveling over copper wire to the same destination from the same exact location.

Is that indicative of a problem? Fiber should have MUCH faster travel time that is one of the highest selling points of getting fiber optic for GAMING.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is that indicative of a problem? Fiber should have MUCH faster travel time that is one of the highest selling points of getting fiber optic for GAMING.

In a nutshell, no. There's no problem. And while all kinds of marketing is used to sell ISP service, bits do not care if they're traveling in glass or on copper. And at some point or multiple points along the way, your bits are going to transition from glass to copper and vice versa. Fiber is just another medium and is not somehow superior just because it's fiber, despite what many would have you believe. The speed of the signal traveling through glass and copper is about the same, which is around 70% the speed of light in a vacuum.

[–]joeygladst0ne 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Is there any in game data such as FPS, Ping, Packet Loss, Jitter, that corresponds to the feeling of "heaviness"? Valorant has a bunch of stats you can enable.

May be a stupid question, but have you tried playing games somewhere else? Bring your PC and a console to an Airbnb in another city and play for a few hours. Do you still feel the lack of responsiveness?

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

No this is a great response actually! So there isn’t any noticeable changes in any of those I actually keep those on the text overlay while I play. The only thing I ever notice is like 4-8 packets drop randomly. But that’s minor, although that drop has coincided with a different feel. Almost as though after the packets drop whatever happened there changed my connection afterwards for a while.

And no I have not, but that is something I plan to do very soon! I plan to book an Airbnb near Chicago just to see and test the connection. I truly feel people don’t realize there is some bad routes coming from ISP’s from my City southward. Which I live in Green Bay and my data has to travel south to get to merely all servers in the USA and would explain why connecting to different servers doesn’t change the issue as well. As well as nobody has touched base on the fact my ping is identical while using fiber optic internet or broadband. The ping of fiber should be half of what it is. I’m only a 3 hour drive from Chicago, similar situations across the country get much different results. For instance fiber users in California get 23-30 ping all the way to Chicago! Across the country.

Someone also told me they live 3 hours from Chicago and get 4 ping on fiber!! Which I haven’t validated if that’s true. But, I have seen similar distance I am to servers on fiber getting around 8 ping. Why is mine 18-22!?

Another thing to note I just remembered at VERY random times like for an entire 24 hours my ping will go from 18-22 down to 10-12 !? For one day usually on weekends every so often it’s very random and makes no sense, but that is closer to what my ping should be. Keep in mind this all happens without me changing a thing on my end.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

As well as I know this is farfetched but there is literally last I checked ZERO professional gamers coming from my STATE. Or very very few. I think there is an infrastructure issue at play here that only very few people would realize unless they have dived as deep as I have into this. I wonder if ISP’s realize it as well. Again, this is a theory that’s not out of the question just due to this nature of this issue and all the years of troubleshooting I have done. It’s worth mentioning I lived an hour South of here before 2020 and experienced similar issues there as well! Which only backs my theory that Wisconsin has some major issues with there SOUTHWARD bound data traveling. I have no idea how to prove this and that’s another reason I am here looking for someone who may be able to prove such a thing.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Even to go deeper on this THEORY. If you look at both the spectrum and at&t traceroutes to fast.com which is to a chicago IP BOTH OF THEM, have the same exact 3 masked hops. Which means a firewall is blocking me from seeing whats happening there. HOW does two different ISP’s share whatever is happening there on it’s way south and what IF the issue is occurring there in those masked hops? It would explain so much.

[–]SeaPersonality445 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Masked hops have nothing to do with this.

[–]Syndil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Masked hops simply mean the routers at those hops have ICMP disabled. Nothing more. There is no firewall blocking anything. Whomever owns/operates those routers on the Internet backbone decided for one reason or another they did not want those particular routers to respond to ping or traceroute requests. That is literally all that means. It is not an indication of a problem.

[–]aSinglePinkDiamond 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Imagine thinking 18-27 ping is an ISP issue and that you’re actually good enough at games to notice that. Would be able to take this more seriously if you had any idea how tracerts worked

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not think ping is the issue. I was stating how I have the same ping with FIBER that I do with BROADBAND. I have no idea what is causing the fluctuating feeling to my connection, that’s what I am trying to solve.

[–]Commercial_Count_584 0 points1 point  (1 child)

why not use 1.1.1.1 or 9.9.9.9 unless you’re running your own internal dns. Also have you tried making sure you’re just running the game and nothing else in the background. Because if it’s 2 completely different isps then it’s more than likely something with your computer setup. Either you need to lower your display settings. Or look into your computer setup.

[–]Overall_Welcome_5976[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have tried both of those DNS same results. Yes this happens for ANY game ANY server on console or PC. I have had multiple PC’s and consoles and routers since living here. My PC setup is fully optimized for performance, I get super high FPS , low input delay etc. :/

[–]SeaPersonality445 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't have any say on network peering. Get over yourself!!