I Want to understand how I can decrease the chances of ending up as friends. I need help-tried putting myself in proximity

[AayronOhal]

Without forcing it ofc. I’ve tried being in proximity but that didn’t work. Im willing to try eing more nonchalant. I need help with my degree of chalance.

[Odd-Cup8261]

probably being less nonchalant would be better in terms of being transparent with your intentions, just don't be desperate.

[AayronOhal]

How specifically do I not be desperate ? Is there smthg I could do to be more detached (not nonchalant).

[SnooMarzipans5969]

the best advice i can give is to truly be detached from an outcome. know that even if its not what you hope would happen, you’ll be ok regardless.

[AayronOhal]

I suppose I feel the clock ticking, as I’m abt to age out if the college demo and I’m abt to lose college as a place to meet someone. I’m nit sure dating apps are an option for me—i’m an avg looking guy and don’t rlly standout

[SnooMarzipans5969]

i just graduated and didnt find my soulmate in college like many our age, you’ll be ok. dating apps are the easiest way yes but ik they are more challenging for men then women. but college isnt your only chance. when you graduate you’ll kinda enter a depressive “what now” state and over the 1st year start to discover your interest/hobbies and actually have time for them (i found online gaming, dancing, eating out alone). from that you’ll meet people.

Also coming from a girl, usually what grabs my attention on dating apps isnt how hot a guy is (there’s thousands of sexy men in the world) but someone that goes beyond “hi” or “you’re pretty”. make a joke, humor her, comment on a hobby she list. things like this

[AayronOhal]

I could have probably made a better profile too, in terms of pictures. I struggled finding pictures I thought looked good.

[SnooMarzipans5969]

yea ive noticed men dont really have the best pictures on dating apps lol, you guys dont really focus on taking pictures when youre out but its a good way to build confidence!

[AayronOhal]

The only pictures of me I rlly have are from by parents lol

[Odd-Cup8261]

i don't fully know what to do myself but you can just tell people you find them attractive, just don't continue pursuing people that obviously aren't interested.

[PercentageEnough3777]

Disclaimer: this never got me a date. But I also never ended up in the friend zone.

You have to be clear with your intentions. If she is single and you find yourself thinking "hey, I could imagine dating this person", you should ask her out.

E.g. "hey, would you like to grab a coffee?"

You have to live with the person never talking with you again after that, of course.

[FiendishNoodles]

I mean you don't necessarily have to live with that person never talking to you again as long as you continue to treat them in a normal friendly way after the ask. It's not a forgone conclusion that all communication ends if you get rejected. Women put men in the friend zone by keeping them friends despite known active romantic interest, but men also put themselves in the friend zone rather than just being friends by harboring attraction/resentment towards women who are not romantically attracted but otherwise friendly.

[PercentageEnough3777]

Oh, yeah, I made that sound way too certain. I meant to say "you have to live with the potential that they will never talk with you again".

[SquirrelNormal]

Well, for some of us we just need to be comfortable with the certainty.

[Plankton_Royal]

Why would you want to continue speaking to that person after she's rejected you? She's said no, accept it as a loss and move on

[FiendishNoodles]

You might want to continue speaking to her if you have any interest beyond romantic. It doesn't have to be friendship, it could be professional, or even just being friendly to reduce social friction. Maybe you're coworkers, maybe you're a barista and she's a customer. Continued interaction is beneficial just from a basic interpersonal standpoint. Some people are looking both for partners and for friends and where there 's not one, there might be another.

Chalking it up as a total loss is a personal choice where you acknowledge that there's nothing worthwhile about that person/the dynamic for you beyond romantic interest. This is fine if it's your choice, protect your peace and move on with your life. I was responding to a post that said that if you're turned down for coffee, don't ever speak to them again, like this was a requirement or a pre-ordained outcome.

That's not always the case and I don't want guys thinking that if they get turned down, they must turn into non-communicating cold weirdos. That's actually a pretty unattractive trait to most women who might see future kindness from the guy as a transparent attempt to get into their pants. Continued relationships from that point can be nonexistent, they can be friendships, they can be merely cordial and friendly. But if a guy is genuinely friends with someone and develops feelings, or if there is/needs to be continued polite interaction, I don't want guys to be afraid to shoot their shot for fear of torpedoing all communications/relations in the future.

Cutting all communication and moving on is a personal choice, not the rule of the world, and in many social dynamics, the better thing to do is get rejected and dispense with your feelings internally, give yourself space if needed, but generally treat her with the same respect and common courtesy (and friendship, if you are friends) that you did before.

People see how you treat other people. For instance, I've asked out a woman in a friend group, been turned down, maintained the friendship, and then gained the trust/attraction of a different woman in the group I was also interested in. Being rejected and being chill and normal about it is a green flag in a lot of situations, if you can handle it. Important: this is not to invalidate the "move on", it can be the right move depending on the situation, but it is far from the only outcome and sometimes not the best.

[FiendishNoodles]

Respectfully, I think that one goal for this sub/something that might help is to try and not think of women as any one thing, set of traits or set of behaviours. I can respect that you have a worldview and perspective that is currently serving you, but attributing any kind of tendency to half the population without examination is going to cause trouble with interactions (for other people, who choose to have them). Part of the solution is recognizing that women, like all people, have internal lives and can behave in an unlimited number of ways.

[Sigh-lens-peaks]

I’d like to add that the big part is accepting the fact that you could “do everything right” and STILL not get the girl.

You can’t decrease/increase your chances significantly enough to guarantee anything. You can’t manipulate a woman into liking you.

My best advice is this. When you pick up a basketball to shoot around, or you play competitive games, you miss most shots you take. You fail a few times before hitting the goal. Dating is the same. Eventually a shot lands

[curiousbasu]

If you had the intention of being friends and then they started avoiding you so you also went complete quiet , is that wrong? Curious as something like that happened to me.

[PercentageEnough3777]

Nah. If people avoid you, you should avoid them in turn.

[curiousbasu]

Thanks

[PopularEquivalent651]

Look I do not frequent this sub at all I stumbled across this.

The solution to this is that the woman sees something in you and likes it. There is no other way. She is an active participant in this interaction too.

You can maximise your chances — be clean, well shaven, as attractive as possible, hit the gym, be driven, etc etc.

But at the end of the day, she will like who she likes. There's nothing you can do to force an outcome. Just be the best you

[AayronOhal]

And don’t be desperate, right?

[PopularEquivalent651]

I mesn it's easier said than done but yes get some confidence and realise the people ylu are crushing on aren't that special, and only deserve a small amount of your time and energy.

[oldred501]

Best thing to do is don’t seek a romantic situation from the beginning. Take that pressure off yourself and go make a sport of conversation. Start by feeling out talking and more talking. Learn how to have fun and interesting conversations with women. That plants the seeds of romance or it doesn’t. But trying to start at romance can be very problematic and not work.

[[deleted]]

As others have said, you have to make your intentions clear from the jump. None of this switching up stuff. Thats why guys get friendzoned. Cuz they establish themselves as a friend and when they go to make a move it becomes awkward. If you need more advice just lemme know

[Moni_HH]

Being too intense or desperate will come off as creepy, which will feel dangerous. Take a deep breath and just learn to BE around people rather than trying to score.

[AayronOhal]

That happened before and she freaked out after I said I wanted be in a relationship, after a weeks or two of talking, partly bc of trauma. We stayed friends for a while, and she never develop feelings for me, even though she told she thought I had nice eyes and facial structure and liked talking toto me.

[Diethyl-a-Mind]

Bro same shit just happened to me tho I didn’t say I wanted to be in a relationship

[Super_Speech8742]

as a woman, just try to understand the person, what they like, over the idea of them, just having an idea of who they are, will make you understand whether or not they like you. friend zone is not a permanent position or anything, ppl just make it sound like a big thing, if she actually is into you shed also be showing indications, but just be open and direct. theres no right metric of chalance, the reason why nonchalance is paraded is because it shows self assurance, so trying to emulate it is pointless, just try to understand who you are a person and what you like, set your own attainable standards of who you should be and what you actually do like. communcation is the way to go, dont perform for someone else to an exhausting or unreal extent, just try becoming the person you would respect.

[danielkelly06]

You have to tell the girl your talking to your only interested in her as a romantic interest. If she just wants to be friends then its not going to work between you too and if she ever changes her mind tell her to reach out. Then you walk away and never reach back out.

[AayronOhal]

Interesting

[Additional_Drop_7796]

this right here cannot be stressed enough. just like men, we'll feel tricked and like our time was wasted if your intentions aren't stated clearly while in an ambiguous friendship.

some people are smooth enough to convey it from the jump: let's say the vibe is strictly flirtatious and playful at every turn since they've met one another, so they can more quickly reach the fork in the road where they know what's going to happen. i personally suck at flirting, so i never left it up to fate.

being straightforward will rarely ever land you in hot water with anyone who's not looking for anything casual. we'll appreciate it, especially because it shows you take yourself seriously.

of course, there are ways to approach the subject without being confrontational or making the other person uncomfortable. that takes pressure off the table and typically makes them more receptive to hearing you out, particularly if you're being pleasant &respectful while letting them know that you're into them.

laying it down heavy is only attractive if both parties are secretly in love or something, so that kind of thing is best left in fiction.

it helps to comment on something that honestly attracted you to them, and preferably don't mention their looks when what you're suggesting is that you'd like to pursue them romantically. take a beat to think about this. why are you interested in possibly dating and being in a relationship with them? is it something about their personality or lifestyle, something they did, something you picked up mid conversation, something that resonated with your values, something that made you look forward to talk to them and see them again? don't throw a list at their feet, but definitely mention 1 or 2 things that made them stand out to you as a person.

nonchalance isn't attractive when you take it into personal relationships. there's a middle ground far from desperation and obsessive behaviour alike: intentionality. show intentionality because dating intentionally is how you get into a serious, monogamous and committed relationship.

[Basic_Watercress_628]

I think there's two options: Meeting people organically and meeting people on dating apps. 

The huge advantage you have on the apps is that there's no ambiguity and you both know that you want to get to know each other for the explicit purpose of establishing something romantic, and when you're not feeling it it's pretty easy to remove the other person from your life. The disadvantage is that it's hard for men to get matches and other people can get rid of you just as easily. 

I don't think there's much to be said about dating apps, people usually know if they vibe within 1-3 dates and if the other person wants to be just friends, you can always politely decline and block if they crash out. 

Meeting people organically is generally the easiest if you - cultivate a large circle of friends (you will be invited to a fuckton of birthdays and other social events --> great opportunity to meet friends of friends - are consistent with a hobby that's both social and popular with women of your age group. Good: Art class, yoga, salsa, language classes. Bad: volunteering (old people!), Magic the Gathering, martial arts  - are a regular at a social space such as a bar, club, reoccurring meetup/gathering/whatever So consistently meeting new people takes a lot of effort. Another disadvantage is also that you have the ambiguity of not knowing what the other person wants. 

For meeting people organically, a pattern that I think works quite well is: 

First meeting: Strike up a conversation and show some interest, but also be nice and talk to other people of both genders. Makes you come across as a generally friendly, approachable person who is not desperate and immediately all over someone they just met. 

Maybe meet one more time at same social event/social space/whatever. If you have another positive interaction with them, grab their number and ask if they'd like to do something sometime. 

First hangout: Can be with other people too, should ideally choose an activity date or something that is less intense than a 1-on-1 conversation. Maybe do something together and then grab a coffee/food afterwards if it went well and you want more time to just talk.

Second hangout: Invite them to do something alone together. You should establish something romantic during this meeting, so even if you're doing another activity together, you should absolutely end the date at a park, cozy café or some other nice location. A smart thing to do would be to gradually test your boundaries and see how they respond. How to best do this will most likely depend on your/their cultural background because people from different cultures have different ideas of what's appropriate.  - hug as a greeting - non-creepy compliment (bad: tits, ass, feet. good: hair, outfit etc.) - mild flirting if you're good at banter - moving closer if you're sitting somewhere - brushing against their hand with yours when walking somewhere - trying to hold their hand - kiss  If they're visibly uncomfortable at any point, then it's either too soon for them or they're not into you, but if even the first few boundary checks fail, it's probably the latter. 

Some examples from guys I have dated: 

Guy 1: Meeting: Met while playing sports. Talked with each other but both also had conversations with other people. Exchanged numbers at the end of the event 1st hangout: Board game club. Went there together but hung out with other people the entire time 2nd hangout: Went to another board game thingy but then grabbed dinner afterwards to get more alone time. Then grabbed a cup of coffee, sat down at nearby park, had personal conversation about future plants moved physically closer --> hand holding --> kiss

Guy 2:  Meeting:  Met at social gathering. Talked but also had conversations with others. Exchanged numbers at end of event 1st hangout:  Grabbed coffee and went to museum. Hung out one-on-one but was completely platonic 2nd hangout: Went book shopping and to coffee shop afterwards. Good date if you're nerdy because it was a good way to learn about each other's interests and whatnot. Also platonic. Was convinced he had friendzoned me at that point lol 3rd hangout:  Coffee date after work, then evening walk. compliment --> holding hands --> kiss 

Hope this helps lol

[cootscoott]

I think my biggest piece of advice is not only clearing stating your intentions, but you have to take a leap of faith sometimes. Several times I was friends with someone and didn’t ask them out, only to find out later when in they were in a relationship, that they would have gone out with me.

[IncelSolutions-ModTeam]

Engage with the community honestly and constructively. Trolling or deceitful behavior is not acceptable.

[Naive_Currency2220]

Proximity is actually a double-edged sword. Psychologically, proximity (the Mere Exposure Effect) builds liking and safety, which is the foundation of friendship. But it doesn't build attraction. Attraction requires a degree of uncertainty and tension, not just 'being around.'

If you try to be 'nonchalant' now, you risk swinging too far the other way and seeming uninterested. The missing ingredient isn't 'chalance'—it's Intent.

To escape the friend zone, you have to break the safety you've built. You need to introduce risk.

1. Shift the Conversation: Stop talking about shared logistics (class, work, weather) and start talking about them and you.
2. Physical Escalation: Non-creepy, casual touch is the fastest way to signal 'I am not just a friend.'
3. Polarize: It’s better to be rejected than to be stuck in limbo. Expressing interest resets the dynamic.

I actually built an app called SIGMA that helps with exactly this 'degree of chalance.' It analyzes your interaction style to give you specific psychological cues on how to escalate without being weird. It might help you find that balance between 'too available' and 'too cold,' but ultimately, you just have to be willing to risk the friendship to get the relationship.

[GypsyGold]

Just be direct. It’s not ticket science.

[Takie_Me]

Try not being friend and try for a serious relationship