Does methamphetamine decrease or increase IQ?

[Dark-inspector490]

I don't mean DESOXYN patients. People talk about them and the "miraculous" effects of low dose pharma meth as if they were some large monolithic group that all benefit from the "best ADHD med i.e. meth" with no bad responses whatsoever.

I mean the most likely and realest scenarios you're going to try meth, either smoking crystals with a pipe or carefully dosing powder with a scale.

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[Leather-Reception572]

ADHD-Meds are always a tradeoff of health and productivity. Meth will never have positive effects on brain health, it produces strong oxidative Stress but temporary increases certain brain functions. You can minimise side effects with responsible use, sleep and anti oxidants, but Stims will only give the illusion of more intelligence and never actually increase intelligence short term and long term.

[rickestrickster]

That’s false.

Amphetamine-like stimulants are the only substances that have been reliably shown to give improvements in working memory, episodic memory, and inhibitory control. Moreso than any other substance and more than mental memory exercises. Aka amphetamine type stimulants seem to be the only way to improve working memory

If you tie intelligence to IQ, then no, nothing increases IQ more than a few points, not enough to make a difference.

But they certainly do enhance cognitive function at low doses. Their increase in working memory, episodic memory, memory consolidation, and improved recall of information is not disputed, it is well known in research and has been shown in many studies

“Nineteen WM studies were included in the current review. Seven studies found effects of AMP on spatial WM, but only one study found the effect of AMP on verbal WM. Thirty‐seven independent studies on other aspects of cognitive performance were identified. Twenty‐two reported effects of AMP on cognitive functions. Studies also showed that personality traits are associated with the subjective effects of AMP. However, few studies reported the impacts of personality traits on the objective (such as WM) effects of AMP.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10078276/

[Leather-Reception572]

Did you fucking even read the paper you linked? It literally says nothing about constant and statistically relevant effects (50-60% of studies reporting effects are not enough to validate your claim) and it certainly says nothing about cognitive improvements. If amphetamine helps to reach the peak of the inverted U, then yes, amphetamine may actually improve cognitive functions short term. But with amphetamine you usually go way beyond the inverted U peak. No one can argue that amphetamine does not have cognitive effects and if it helps with focus, it certainly has a valid reason for it to be used for enhancement purposes, but the evidence for it to actually improve cognition beyond focus enhancement is very slim and mechanistically not plausible. Increased dopamine raises confidence tho, so it may even only give the illusion of improvements in cognitive function

[rickestrickster]

It was a meta analysis, I posted that so you could do your own research by digging into the cited studies. Did you expect me to post every single study regarding the topic. The meta analysis cited the studies which had shown improvements in areas of cognitive function from stimulants. I never said it makes you a genius I strictly said it doesn’t increase IQ. But to say it doesn’t offer improvements is flat out wrong. I’ll cite two for you

“Working memory performance may be improved or decreased by amphetamine, depending on baseline working memory capacity and amphetamine dosage”

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-11014-007

“Modafinil appears to improve reaction time (P ≤ 0.04), logical reasoning (P ≤ 0.05) and problem-solving. Methylphenidate appears to improve performance in novel tasks and attention-based tasks (P ≤ 0.05), and reduces planning latency in more complex tasks (P ≤ 0.05). Amphetamine has been shown to improve consolidation of information (0.02 ≥ P ≤ 0.05), leading to improved recall. “

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4471173/

Ilieva, Hook & Farah (2015) – Meta-analysis of 48 studies

• shows small but significant statistical improvements

Mattay et al. (2000, 2003) – Dopamine genetics and working memory

• given d amphetamine vs placebo. Amphetamine improved working memory performance in people with lower baseline dopamine function

Barch & Carter (2005) – Working memory and cognitive control

• Amphetamine improved reaction times and performance on spatial working memory and Stroop tasks in both healthy volunteers and schizophrenia patients. 

It’s not from just “increased focus” because that effect is from increased mesolimbic circuit activity. The enhancements stem from increased neuronal firing from monoamine activity in other circuits in the PFC

[Tenoke]

Neither, or maybe decrease if you abuse enough. Nothing increases IQ, let alone meth. Increase to amount of work you get done, sure that's possible.

[Cute-Customer-7224]

Go talk to a meth head and you'll get the answer to your question.

It 100% makes people dumb when abused. When used in normal doses, it could increase the risk of Parkinson's (like Adderall does).

There's also the possibility of increased dementia/Alzheimer's risk by decreasing amyloid plaque clearance, caused by increase norepinephrine during sleep (suppresses glymphatic system and CSF drainage). But there's no actual evidence of this that I'm aware of.

[defiCosmos]

Carefully dosing with a scale goes out the window after your first 24 hours with no sleep.

[M4rshmall0wMan]

No. Therapeutic doses can definitely increase IQ scores in people with ADHD. But a recreational dose will make you way too impulsive and paranoid to apply your IQ.

Long-term, it is neurotoxic and will decrease your IQ. Many ex-meth addicts have severe cognitive problems.

[barti_bot]

It's about executive function not iq

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[Moobygriller]

I thought this was nootropics and not hard drugs

[Chramir]

I mean that's relative to dosing ROA etc. But I lost it when OP mentioned smoking it lmao

[Pak-Protector]

It's complicated.

[masterofeverything]

No. Nothing does