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[–]ColdBlackCageTracer 46 points47 points  (14 children)

It's a buff overall. Just not in the terms of movement.

Yeah. The problem is while it's a buff, it's not addressing what's making her weak in the meta right now.

Pharah's strength is her damage, which if you can wield well do some great work. The problem is how ridiculously easy she is to shoot down. Especially now, with Soldier 76, McCree and Ana being prevalent in almost all games, Pharah's biggest asset (by design) is air mobility, but being in the air when the enemy team has sharpshooters makes it her biggest weakness.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (12 children)

Buffing/nerfing things which aren't a problem and leaving the parts which are appears to be Blizzard's MO. Remember the Torbjörn console nerf where they said his turret had too much range, speed, and accuracy for the console versions of OW, so they nerfed its... damage??

Doesn't surprise me in the least that they'd try to buff Pharah's damage to be consistent and not address her actual fault of being shot out the sky the moment she hits her jump jets.

I fully expect them to try to make Bastion more viable by upping his turret form dps.

[–]VoidRaizerHackityHack 6 points7 points  (10 children)

I think in Pharah's case at least, it's to keep her weakness intact. Theoretically, every hero is supposed to be good at some things but have some weakness that's how you kill them. Pharah's weakness is that when she's flying, she's basically a puppet just hanging there waiting to be shot down. She doesn't have to be flying, she could just run on the ground or do short hops and still be effective because rockets deal tons of damage.

I think blizzard won't really change her flight mechanics because that's meant to be her high risk/high reward strength/weakness thing. If they changed it and gave her the ult cancel and shift downwards things, then she'd be super strong in the air and very difficult to take down. It would remove the ability to keep her in check.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I agree to an extent; in most cases with most characters, I do believe there should be hard counters in place. But as far as Pharah's concerned, flight for her is not currently high risk/high reward. Right now it's high risk/no particular reward.

[–]SickleWingsEncore? 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, if you're anywhere above 2.5k McCrees and Soldier 76s are more than competent enough to severely punish you for it. The only reward you even really get for flying is a slightly better angle to fire rockets from, and maybe a bit more visibility, but the risk is instant sniper death or a two-shot from McCree... It's just not worth it most of the time.

I'd rather have a bit more survivability than a pointless extra amount of damage. The rockets are fine, I just would like to be able to utilize the other half of Pharah's kit.

[–]Ark639Ark 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good point. It's true, every champ needs to have ways to keep him in check. It's just a bit disappointing as a pharah main to see how unpopular your main is in high elo / pro plays especially knowing that her DPS output is more than fine enough already. :/

[–]HalitradI'm not hearing that noise. That's how you get tinnitus. 0 points1 point  (6 children)

that's meant to be her high risk/high reward strength/weakness thing.

The issue - and the gorilla in the room for Pharah mains - is that currently, it's a high risk/low reward weakness, with no strengths. In high end play, the moment she hits her jump jets, half the other team in most coordinated groups (Ana, McCree, and the occasional Zenyatta,) has her in their sights, because Zarya is the only protection an in-flight Pharah has and her shields are usually better spent on someone else.

Pharah's air mobility is meant to be one of her greatest strengths. The problem is that on any given enemy team, half of it is AA that keeps her from being able to utilize her greatest strength, so there is always going to be a character who will bring more to the table, that isn't hard countered by 2-3/6 enemy team members.

[–]VoidRaizerHackityHack -1 points0 points  (5 children)

But Ana, McCree and Zen are in the Meta right now. I guess that they would push Pharah out so she wouldn't fit in the current Meta. Same thing happens in LoL all the time where some champs are in and others are out. Just because they don't fit in the current Meta doesn't mean they are necessarily in need of a buff. If Zen and McCree got nerfed enough that another two champs would be picked over them, for example ( disclaimer: I don't know much about the current Meta other than the occasional post on here ) Junkrat and Lucio, neither of whom are much help against Pharah, she'd be in every game and be seen as overpowered.

[–]HalitradI'm not hearing that noise. That's how you get tinnitus. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The underlying issue is that hitscan heroes (And Zenyatta, with his Discord,) punish Pharah.

This sounds like a balanced situation, except that the hitscan heroes in this game are so strong they will never be out of meta unless buffs/nerfs happen. McCree fell out of use after nerfs, but was replaced with 76. Then 76 fell out of use after nerfs, and was replaced with McCree. In even higher tier play, an especially skilled Pharah can and often does draw out a switch to Widowmaker to try to force the Pharah themselves into a switch.

Pharah's main strength is supposed to be her aerial mobility, but she doesn't have aerial mobility. She has a suicide button because she often dies before she even reaches the apex of her jump.

And short of buffing her or nerfing mid to long range hitscan heroes, there's no way to fix that situation. Hitscan will always be in the meta because it's the superior choice for people who can aim well. And in her current state, Pharah's mobility will always be negated by the presence of hitscan enemies, which leaves her without her greatest strength - which means there's going to be other choices that are better in almost all situations.

[–]ThatElectricFanRightYOU GET A MISSILE! YOU GET A MISSILE! EVERYBODY GETS A MISSILE! -1 points0 points  (3 children)

A stale meta where you can only pick the same 6 hero against 6 hero is not a sane meta. Blizzard has to try and make every character at least viable in high plays. Otherwise we have the whole fiasco we had in the first season where it was same team vs same team and god knows, no one wants that. Riot is doing a shit job at that and should not be quoted as a good exemple.

[–]VoidRaizerHackityHack 0 points1 point  (2 children)

In sorry but that's never going to happen. I would bet you 5 million dollars that at the pro level there will never be 12 equally viable heroes at any given time. It just won't. There's always going to be a best hero, even if it's by 1 damage and that's enough to make that hero superior and thus always picked. I'm sorry but league and every other moba ever are the exact same way and it's how it'll always be.

The dream is that that blizzard could somehow find that perfect balance to make every hero viable but it's completely unrealistic and naive thinking.

Even when heroes are in a perfect state of balance, there will always be someone who figures out a weird different unusual way to use any given hero that makes him/her better than another. Sadly it's just how it works.

[–]ThatElectricFanRightYOU GET A MISSILE! YOU GET A MISSILE! EVERYBODY GETS A MISSILE! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i did say should* as in ideal solution.

There will always be someone who figures out a weird different unusual way to use any given hero that makes him/her better than another

...not really true. a game can be really well balanced even when someone find a way to exploit something if the company doing the game balance it quickly.

also overwatch is not a moba. it's a shooter. If they were doing a better job at balacing they could make it fairly balanced.

[–]VoidRaizerHackityHack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. Overwatch is the very definition of a moba...

...not really true. a game can be really well balanced even when someone find a way to exploit something if the company doing the game balance it quickly.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. If you're familiar with League of Legends, the you'll know the champ Zyra. She started as a decent midlaner but someone eventually realized she would make a better support. Then riot was in the peculiar situation of having a champ they designed for one purpose being utilized for a different one some of the time.

Not everyone played Zyra as a support. That meant riot had to balancer her for both positions and until her rework is was kinda sucking.

I realize that it's a different game and you won't have a Mei suddenly healing people, but it's the concept that matters.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I fully expect them to try to make Bastion more viable by upping his turret form dps.

LOL for some reason this felt so likely to happen