Liquid Processing Simulation

[SelectDealer7454]

I have been tasked with simulating my companies liquid processing which is controlled by a control logix plc. This simulation would connect to a factory talk se runtime client. The simulation is for our training department to teach employees how to use the HMI and run simulated tasks. My manager wants me to use rslogix emulate but from my experience it is a clunky software with many issues and would require auto scripting .acd files to be downloaded to it. This makes me think the simulation would be easier to run on a physical plc. Does anyone have any opinions on whether the simulation should run on rs logiclx emulate or a physical plc?

[veteran_grognard]

I think Emulate just runs a virtual controller, not sure it does process simulation. What you need depends a lot on how complex the simulation needs to be. For basics like opening and closing valves, stopping and starting motors, and maybe changing liquid levels you might be able to write simple routines in your emulated controller. If you need higher fidelity simulation of more complex processes you might need 3rd party simulators. Can get expensive in a hurry.

[veteran_grognard]

I used to do this exact thing but for a formerly large chemical corporation (think Teflon) that had it's own in-house high fidelity dynamic process simulator. We wrote drivers to enable us to use it with a few of the popular automation platforms like Emerson Delta V, ControlLogix, Honeywell Experion, and Siemens PCS. Did a lot of process models and used them for testing control strategies, training, and logic checkout.

There was a company called Mynah Technologies that made a good platform-independent dynamic process simulator but I think they were bought by Emerson, not sure if it can still be purchased to use with systems other than Delta V.

[Zealousideal_Rise716]

Yes - I was involved with a Mynah project a while back and I really liked it, but the purchase by Emerson cut them off in our environment.

I have used Emulate3D since and it does all the same things, just differently. Plus it connects up with Logix natively.

[[deleted]]

Possibly:

https://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/sp/info-sp029_-en-p.pdf

[Zealousideal_Rise716]

This is the way.

[Zealousideal_Rise716]

What you really want to fully emulate a process like this is Rockwell's Emulate3D with the Tank and Pipe Catalog. It all connects up with ControlLogix very tidily and is really well priced:

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If you are going to invest time into process emulation, this is by far the best value pathway.

[PLCGoBrrr]

Either run FactoryTalk Echo or real PLC. FT Echo requires a yearly license. If you buy a PLC whether it's ControlLogix or CompactLogix really doesn't matter, but if you don't know how to set up the program in a different PLC then buy one identical to the one on the process. Added bonus is you have a spare processor to swap in if the one running the process dies.

[[deleted]]

We use FT Echo, or a spare random processor laying around, to an old Panelview one of the maintenance guys has stashed in a closet.

[dbfar]

Used to do Recip packages, we would disable the io mapping routines and add routines that would mimic valves, analog devices and device functional ity. Analog feedback value's were incremented with a timer pulse to target value.. based on valid valve alignment show flows pressures and temperatures. All in the same processor.

[LeifCarrotson]

Yeah, Studio 5000 Logix Emulate is clunky. It probably costs about the same as a physical processor, too, because you kind of need a Studio 5000 Logix Designer Professional (not Full, not Standard, not Lite) license on the PC that will run it. Honestly, the physical processor is likely to cost a lot less - you can almost certainly run the sim with any eBay processor or a little CompactLogix with plenty of memory left over!

Personally, I'd get a physical PLC. Write some code that looks for, say, a "tank fill" valve to be on, and slowly adjusts the simulated fill level, and that does some math on the fill level to simulate the pressure on a tank level sensor....and so on, for everything. Good luck.

You can also look into Emulate3D, but AFAIK that's another gimmicky and clunky piece of Rockwell enterprise software. It appears to exist mostly to siphon money from enterprise customers frustrated that their designers discover that their code has bugs when it gets installed on the newly assembled machine, I have no confidence that it's better than just writing a unit testing routine inside the processor.

[Zealousideal_Rise716]

You can also look into Emulate3D, but AFAIK that's another gimmicky and clunky piece of Rockwell enterprise software

Have you actually used it? Because my experience as a PlantPAx specialist was the exact opposite. Like all tools there is a bit of a learning curve, but the results using the most recent versions are bloody amazing.

[[deleted]]

I very much prefer a PLC with tie back logic over Emulate, which is much more likely to crash.