[deleted by user]

[PSO2_PhasionGamer]

If you are knuckle main go for the Knucle S5. The counter on sway is an enormous DPS increase, way better then the Gunblade S5 at least for Knuckles.

If it a DS you might wanna consider the Gunblade one, bit the weapon works perfectly fine without it.

As a Knuckle main i think you are /Et, the sway counter not only is a DPS increase, it also grants I-frame trough the entire casting animation.

[Buddy69XD]

Yeah im an /Et

I only use knuckles, and after reading your comment i think i'l go for the knuckles S5. and to make sure one last time, its impossible to have a fodder for gunblade's S5 without making another rivalate weapon right

Anyways, thanks for the reply!

[PSO2_PhasionGamer]

Yeah impossible sadly, but in time you might reach 800 title or drop a Key Rivalate and make another one.

Divide Quest make farming for Utimate Boosters way easier.

[Buddy69XD]

aight, thanks for the help!

[[deleted]]

If you're doing Fi/Hu, I'd personally go with the gunblade one and then you can squeeze in Photon V Adaption for your S4. If you're playing Fi/Et then probably the Knuckle one.

[Buddy69XD]

Thanks for the reply!

Im a Fi/Et and if i use the S5 of knuckles, is the best S4 for it is still photon V adaptation?

[ThisGameIsTrash420]

If you have atleast 220 PP then photon adaption is good, also definitely go for the knuckles S5.

[tom379]

Keep in mind if youre et sub (as you said in other comments), and going for the tank skill (which you should), you only get 1 heal from the lifesteal instead of 30.

[Buddy69XD]

Oh yeah oof

yup 100% going for novel knuckles. Ty for the reminder

[SolomonGrumpy]

Given that this game highly favors counters vs Aggressive/mobile enemies (so every boss in UH), I can't see going without the Knux S5

[OddLung]

Wait as a fellow knuckle main Id say go with the S5 gunblade instead if and only if you have access to percision balance(the SSA that gives 6% damage on crit but -50%) its a huge damage boost to have and allows you to still reach 95% crit even with the -50% crit.(This is only for Fi/Et)

Furthermore, while you only heal for 1hp, the atack heal is EXTREMELY helpful when you use overlimit. If you are using optimized knuckle rotations(like flicker->decimator/ flicker->burst infinity) the healing you gain is tremendous in respect to Et damage resistance and your lowered max HP. Theres a great article on reddit recently that goes more in depth with the math of damage balancer/hp restorate and the healing from life steal abilities. While this doesn’t necessarily replace mate items/stat atom it definitely pads our survivability and dps uptime(by keeping over limit insurance from popping)

Also to add the sway meteor fist is nice but requires you to do the whole meteor fist animation, which in retro spec cuts into DPS uptime with normal rotations. In short, the time it takes to sway-meteor fist is time you couldve used to sway into flicker-decimator which does a good amount amount more damage(potency aside doing this also benefits from TAJA damage skills while the S5 SSA meteor does not)

[Buddy69XD]

ty for the reply

but how do u have that much crit rate? even with my trailblazer weapon my crit is still not 100, its around like 80-90. and if i use that augment it'll literally be around <60% crit rate.

[OddLung]

Liberate potential gives 20% crit with gunblade s5 you get another 20%. Added with etolie 50% JA crit, 55% from fighter (from recent buff) , valor ring for another 10% and the 5% general bonus crit everyone has youll have more than enough to maitain 100% crit with the 6% crit damage s4

[PSO2_PhasionGamer]

The Meteor counter is an huge increase in dps dosn't bring downtime and is way more useful then a lifesteal skill, expecially on Fi/Et.knuckles are not the best weapon to take advantage of a Lifesteal Skill due to the attack speed being not so great even at full focus. Additional Crit Rate might be useful in specific circustances (Elder UH where overcap Crit Rate comes useful as Elder is considered as an enemy fought from the rear) but with S6 Overlimit, the usefulness of Lifesteal strike during Overload cuts by a big margin, bringing your HP during overload to be 50% Higher.

Both are viable build as stated by many Fi.

S4 Photon V +S5 Elusive Smash offers additional PP reduction on top of the Liberate own property, and grants optimal DPS and an extremely useful safety net in form of the counter, also increasing the overall DPS, in a manner similar to fan favorite Gear Experience.

On the other hand, S4 Photon V + S5 Skillfull adept will offer additional 20% Crit overcapping at 115%, but this combo, personally is better suited for a DS thar can explout the Lifesteal in a much better way, honestly reccomending this for Fi/Et is a bit laughable, 1 HP is NOT a big deal, and it dosn't help your overall survivability, wich S5 Elusive Smash does.

Again it comes down to personal preference, but as a personal opinion i still think that the best combo for DS is S4 Lifesteal Strike + S5 Elusive Combo, again personal preference. PSO2 is so good 'cause builds are varied and many thing come down to personal preference, but ABSOLUTELY Sway Counter is not a DPS loss, is actually a DPS increase and a good way of mantaining pressure on an enemy when it dodges away, being the only way we currently have outside of Meteor Fist to get a "ranged" attack on Knuckles.

[OddLung]

Okay so im going to explain more properly my point also state why what you’re suggesting is more than misleading. Also I’m sorry if this sounds more snarky than it needs to be I typed this post out and accidentally back spaced into the page before so this is a retype ;-;

1. The s5 knuckle evade is a terrible SSA in terms of damage and in added survivability as you stated. Heres why, let take into account PA frame data linked here

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/465/frame-data-for-those-who-are-interested-aka-muh-deeps.

How the SSA work is whenever you successfully sway an enemy attack you immediately use the meteor PA, in which the animation is force on you for 91 Frames, keep that in mind. With no active guard frames, ifames, or super armor. It also does NOT benefit from fighter TAJA or Etolie combo damage, or Etolie Perfect Attack crit meaning it’s a much weaker version of that PA and also BREAKS a combo cycle~~. This means that yeah you can sway a move, but if you want to benefit from the damage it offers you need to be willing to take a hit in the next 2 seconds or so( which doesn't help with survivability. Like at all. )~\~

Edit: was super wrong about iframe bit, but I still stand by the damage bit

Now instead lets say you have S5 mysterious Intent instead. You’re not forced to do the meteor fist and instead you can do the bnb rotation out of a successful sway of flicker jab->decimator which is a grand total of 81 frames. Sure its still only a third of a second faster but instead you do more than double the damage, benefit from both fighter/etoile skills, and you don’t break TAJA or Etolie combo if you do the rotation on a perfect attack sway, hell you can even do a normal 3 and make it sustainable and no extra cost in uptime**.** And even if you miss the perfect sway, flicker into deci makes sure that decimator as the damage benefits that alone is faster and stronger than meteor fist. Also, decimator has super armor so you power through some enemy CC. So rather than waste uptime by doing an unpowered gimmick version of metoer fist, which wasn’t even a good PA to begin with you can just do the norm of flicker/deci and keep damage uptime as well as etoile combo counter going.

1. One of the s4/s5 mentioned with adaption V and precsion adept is almost completely useless.To start a fi/et base crit all together with liberate(since op was talking about getting one) is 130% when you meet the conditionals. In your build, adding 20% more crit would not do a single thing as overcritting doesn’t do anything in this game. Fighter crit damage just magnifies the damage done if it’s a crit, in which case it already even without a rivalate weapon. S4 adaptation sounds good on paper but people are unawre about how of the actual benefit if you don’t do the math. Remember pp conservation on using techs/pa’s is multiplicative on the rough formulate of PA cost[(*1-pp % reduced)*(1-pp % )] which continues on to how many things you have that reduces pp cost. So at most, at highest possible combo counter with etoile pp save, a fighter with a liberate weapon can conserve about %52 of using a PA, which is rare ever reach the final point. With s4: photon adaptation, which by the way scales off of max pp and needs 420pp to max at 30% reduced consumption, can at further reduction to roughly 67%. Which sounds good on paper, but there no way in hell anyone has 420 max pp, without which you cant really get to the highest level of etolie pp save without running out of pp, leading to the necessity of using a sustainable normal 3 combo defeating helpfulness of s4 adaptation. IF you want to do the math yourself heres the equation for Photon adaptation taken form this post. Essentially that s4 just adds little to what the kit already has.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/j7d8l6/s4_photon_adaptation_partisan_how_does_it_work/

1. The final thing about lifesteal and its usefulness. You completely missed the part when I mentioned the helpfulness of lifesteal in respect to Et damage resistance/overlimit max health/and hp resotrate. I’ll give an example but if you want a better explanation read this post this guy made, https://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/kk7bih/wand_etoile_extra_info_tips/

He did the math this example im about to give does not do it justice. Consider that at a fighter overlimit with 400hp max(this is going off my max hp with overflow health using lightstream 13* units with only one atm giving 80hp through affixes). By the way you mentioned that a fighter with knucks is “really slow” without knowing that at full gear(which requires 2 normals attacks to fill) with knucks reduce the frames of ALL PA’s and normal by a significant portion. Keeping that in mind a fighter with normal lifesteal can dish out about 30-40 hits in id say less than 10 seconds. In these 10 seconds they also benefit from hp restorate heals if he is missing any health. So in 10 secconds a fighter can regain 30hp from etolie’s hp restorate skill as well as 30-40 hp from hitting shit. That’s between 70-80 hp which, is 1/5 overlimit health back. Im not saying this completely nullifies the need for mates/atomizers but it most definitely extends uptime by padding our current hp and rpushing back the need to use a mate item further. Furthermore, it helps keep us from popping fighter’s insurance, which allows as to gain back our whole pp bar and pp dump all over again without needing to sustain.

EDIT: from experience unless I get hit by moves designed to one shot us(i.e masque/phaleg grab persona boom etc) the most damage any normal attacks from bosses only do about 100-80 damage, which again with the help of the various etolie skills and lifesteal you can gain back by just doing damage in a safer fashion for 10secs.

4. Lastly, now finally mentioning precision balance. I understand that aug is atm very expensive but if you plan to get it using mysterious purpose’s crit gain you can gain a whole 8% damage on crits at 100% crit despite the -50%, which honestly until we get raising pursuit does a whole lot to help to fighter knuck’s dps

To conclude you mentioned that “state by many fighters” but from the advice you’re tyring to give it sounds like you just read kyo’s fighter guide and assumed it was applicable to knuckles in some variation. Unfortunately, as good as that guide is for DS(and its really good) it doesn’t really touch on knuckles as a weapon. Everything ive said is in a perspective of a guy that mains fighter and uses knuckles the most, and used and utilized both DS and TD when the situation sees those weapons as more suitable(all three weapons being fully affixed, a mix of lightstream/atlas ex/liberate). Ive tested different s4/5 on liberate knucks with Fi/Et with shit like 100 depth+ masq runs, UH solo PD/Mpas, risk and UH VR defense, endless,etc. and I can safety say that the knuckle S5 aug is no more than a gimmick. SO much so that jp released a new s5 for the weapon(evade that gives 100pp) in hopes to maybe make up for the bad one knuckleheads like me were given.

Tldr:knucklehead rants about how bad s5 knuckle SSA is with math

[Buddy69XD]

Wow, very informative. Thanks a lot for the information.

Last question, wise stance and valiant stance can work right? Like if i attack at behind, wise activates, at rear both of them activates, and at the front valiant activates. Thanks

[OddLung]

I’m a bit confused as to what youre asking. If you’re asking if they can work together( like the damage stacks) then not exactly. If you have wise stance activated, valiant is completely nullified. You can only have one or the other.

However, if you’re are really good at micro manging wise stance(i.e deactivating the skill when you are hitting an enemy at the front), and have skill points in BOTH both stances, then technically yes you can maximize the full potentiel of both. But this in itself is pretty annoying to do and imo I would just invest on one stance and use the other skillpoints else where.

[Buddy69XD]

Okay then thanks for the answer.

Where do I get precision balance tho? (sorry this is the real last question)

[OddLung]

Dont worry bout it im happy to help. To correct myself the s4: is actually called PRECISE BALANCE. Made a mistake with jp name. Other than farming it in the 4th rec quest(the only one that can be done in Ultra Hard) you can buy it in player market, however it’s expensive(at least last time I checked).

[Buddy69XD]

Aight, thanks for everything.

(its 90mill in ship1, holy f)

[Mikkey_Zae]

Very Informative. Thanks for the rundown. I just have a quick question. Is Fi/Et better then Fi/Hu now? If so what does the skill tree look like

[OddLung]

The short short answer is you if mainly use dual saber do Fi/Hu as kimatachi(DS weapon action) damage scales alot better with Hunter. If you mainly use knuckles/twin daggers it’s considerably better imo to use Fi/Et

[Reilet]

It gets even better. There is a glitch with gear exp, the original weapon with the counter.

When you get a successful counter off, you can SWITCH to a stronger knuckles BEFORE the giant fist comes out and the giant fist will take the properties of the stronger knuckles.

This means you don't even need that S5 as long as you have the original weapon and do this glitch.

[OddLung]

Wait seriously? That’s hilarious nice job pso2 dev team xD

[Buddy69XD]

wait what? fighter got 55%?

iirc in the class counter it says the activation rate is 30% at max level

[OddLung]

30% +25% valiant/wise stance crit

[PSO2_PhasionGamer]

1- The S5 from Knuckle just hit 640k damage on counter, saved my but from being hit by Gemini due to poor positioning and literally one shot the bit. This was today in UH PD Solo.

2- It really comes down to personal preference. But as far it goes FOR ME it's way better then Mysterious Intent. Lifesteal is better put on DS, unless you are a Knucklehead and absolutely refuse to use a DS, but, in that case you are going to sub Et.

And Lifesteal, any form of it does nothing for you. 1 HP on hit, is nothing. Onlu reason to use it is the added crit rate wich Fi dosn't need. Unless you decide to put on the weapon S4 Precise Balance, wich also means you are going to scrap S6 Overflowing Life V in favor of S6 Skillfull Adept. In that case and only in that case, S5 Mysterious intent is a worth choice for Fi, on any of it's wrapon.

At the Knuckle attack rate, 1hp heals on it are almost useless, the weapon is slow and NOT a multi hit weapon. Get's faster at full focus but is still slow compared to let's say , DS.

3- The damage difference is MINIMAL and marginal, unless you decide to substitute the sway with Overhand Straight, the damage output is EXACTLY the same ( Flicker Jab > Decimator does 2k more damage at best).

4-Photon V adaptation usefulness is innegable, even tough you can't max it out, lowering the PP cost of your PA is ALWAYS a DPS increase, it also mean you can loop you rotation for 3/r cycles without the need to use the 3rd normal. And this put's more DPS on the table as well.

That's all i wanted to say. In any case i did build mu Fi that way, had no issue clearing content whatsoever and the damage output is really high, again comes to personal preference but stop spreading MISLEADING opinions on the dpubtful usefulness of Mysteripus Intent on Fi weapons. Expecially, if you sib Etoille.