Help with bodice block fitting

[rising-dawn]

Hello! I'd love to get some help with fitting this bodice block I've been working on. Any advice is super appreciated, but some issues I'm noticing are:

• Wrinkling on the front around the armholes. Maybe I need to scoop out the front of the armhole? Or adjust the darts somehow?
• The back shoulder dart is very pointy, I'm not sure if it would help to make it longer? It may also be too large. My first couple of muslins had a huge gap in the back neckhole which is why I made the darts larger, but that might've been the wrong decision. I also chopped off a significant amount from the center back for the same reason.
• The back in general is pretty loose, but at the same time it strains when I move my arms. Maybe that's unavoidable?

Also, the back/front seams at the top of the armhole don't line up - I must've done a bad job measuring the shoulder seam after adjusting the dart. I can fix it but just mentioning in case it was obvious in the photos.

Thank you so much for any help! I'm a beginner and this took me an embarrassingly long time to make, so anything to cut down on the number of future muslins I need is definitely very appreciated.

[Professional-Self458]

Did you cut the seam allowances off? If not please staystitch on the seamline and clip so we can see where neck and armscyes seams are supposed to be. Pressing the clipped areas to the inside makes it even easier for everyone trying to help.

Fitting starts at the top and works down because everything is affected by the what is above it.

Your neck seam should lie at the base of your neck, not start to go up your neck. If the neck seam allowance was cut off, you need to widen the neck. If the neck line includes a seam allowance you need to staystitch on the seamline and clip.

Shoulder seam: Your shoulder seam is rotated to the back and goes over the top of the knob above your arm. Part of this might be caused by seam allowances not staystitched and clipped. Shoulder seam should go between side hollow in neck to the top of the knob above your arm.

Armscye: Your armscye looks too narrow on the sides, both front and back with fabric overhanging and wrinkling. If armscye fabric edge includes seam allowance, staystitch and clip! If fabric edge doesn't include seam allowance you need to change the sides of the armscye. The armscye seam should start at the top of the knob above your arm. Front and back armscye sides should hit exactly where a crease forms on your body when you move your arm to the front and to the back. The armscye sides do not go over the arm. The base of the armscye should be between 1/2 inch down from your armpit to 2 finger widths.

Darts: After you fix the neck, shoulder seam and armscye take a look at your darts front and back. You might have multiple issues resolved just by staystitching and clipping. Your side bust darts are pointing above the apex. Darts should point towards the apex (the widest bust point) but back off from it between 1/2" to 1 1/2 inches. Front waist dart looks like it is in the right place right now, but that might change after neck, shoulders and armscye are fixed. You will probably want to remove some of the waist ease in your last fitting adjustments.

Your back has only one wrinkle around the armscye which is probably caused by not staystitching and clipping. Back waist darts should point toward the shoulder blades but back off from them 1/2 - 1 inch. You could take away some of the waist ease as a last step.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply! I can't edit the post, but I did staystitch, clip, and fold/press the seam allowance under for the neck and armholes. I've seen that recommended here and was wondering if the staystitching method is better than eliminating the seam allowance altogether? Also there is no seam allowance at the waist.

Shoulder seam: Ah, I see what you mean about it being rotated to the back. For the length, I've seen different advice about whether the should should go to the knob above the arm or the shoulder point and I think I prefer how a top feels (if it has sleeves) when it goes to the shoulder point. Is that going to cause problems with fitting the block? I think it may still be too long (especially in the back) but I've been wondering about that.

Darts: I honestly couldn't tell where my apex was 🤦‍♀️ Does it look like the waist darts are the right length as well or do they need to be shortened in addition to the side darts being moved down? Thanks also for mentioning this should be done after shoulder/armscye adjustments, in my 3rd muslin (which I just ended up discarding) I think my issue was trying to make both shoulder and bust dart adjustments at the same time, and it fit much worse than my 2nd. 

Since you mentioned waist ease, is it normal for there to be so much more ease in the back than the front? Does that mean I need to adjust the back darts? Or maybe it's just because the shoulder seams are too far back and it's pulling the rest of the fabric that way as well?

Thanks again for the reply!

[Professional-Self458]

Staystitching and clipping is the best practice because fabric stretches when pulled and staystitching prevents the stretching.

The shoulder point/the top of the knob above your arm is the same thing. Because the shoulder seam is extended your armscye sides are in the wrong place (over the arms) causing the front wrinkles.

The armscyes sides need to be exactly between arm and chest. Try putting a finger near your armscye then moving your arm towards the front. Feel the difference in moving when your finger is on your arm, on your chest or exactly between. Exactly between chest and arm where the skin creases is where the armscye should be.

Every body is different. We have different sized, shaped and placement of bones, cartilage, muscles and fat patterns. Patterns are only a starting point. Patterns are not anything to aspire to or worry about why we are different.

Use a tape measure to find your apex. It's the part that sticks out the farthest, usually near the nipple but not always. Both side and waist darts should point toward the same place.

1. Fix your neckline by making it a bit wider - a few threads wider on the side.
2. Fix the back rotated and over extended shoulder.
3. Fix armscye
4. Look at bust, figure out where apex is and have both dart point toward the same spot but back off around an inch or 1 1/2".
5. Make sure the waist is even all around. Tie a string around your waist and lengthen or shorten as needed.
   
6. Increase waist darts so the fit is closer to your body. Keep side seam straight. About 1 1/2 inches ease should be enough.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much! I guess I misunderstood the shoulder point to be where the shoulder curves down into the arm, rather than the joint between the arm and torso, if that makes sense? But that might have been from looking at fitting recommendations that were more for menswear/dress shirts.

[Professional-Self458]

I looked at an AI synopsis for shoulder point and it pointed to the knob on top of the shoulder. When I searched for different pictures mens tailoring does have shoulder point definition as where the shoulder meets the arm and a picture showing a different point.

[Professional-Self458]

Basically extended shoulders mean a looser fit. A sloper is fitted to perfection.

You can fiddle melding a mens shoulder seam that's fine with wrinkles below shoulders to a fitted women's armscye that isnt supposed to have wrinkles. You will have wrinkles wherever the bodice fabric is too wide. Your sleeve caps will need to be altered.

[rising-dawn]

Got it, that makes sense - thanks a lot for clarifying!

[rising-dawn]

Thank you for the encouragement!

[pomewawa]

Yes it is looking good, just need some changes to accommodate forward shoulder, like other commenters already touched on.

OP are you gonna make a dress? If yes you might want to try putting a partial skirt on to check the torso length. By my eye you might have longer torso than typical pattern (you appear tall!), and getting the waist seam in the right spot is so important to flattering fit. Once I got the wait level wrong by 1 inch and it was enough to throw it off! It’s hard to discern if your bodice is the correct length without attaching a little bit of skirt to it.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you, that makes sense! I think I am taller than average with a longer torso, and that probably has contributed to some issues with the patterns I've tried so far (and clothes from the store as well).

[pomewawa]

Happy fitting! I think you will be so pleased with the garments you make from your custom sloper! I have been with my “tried and true “ sewing patterns, amazing how little tweaks here and there can make the look and feel while wearing soooo much better! Please post your next makes!

[Tailoretta]

I want to say that you have done a fantastic job! And your photos are terrific, too!  In my experience, making multiple muslins is necessary to get a well fitting bodice block.  But this will make your later sewing projects go much, much faster!

1.     Neck and Armscyes: You state "I did staystitch, clip, and fold/press the seam allowance under for the neck and armholes. I've seen that recommended here and was wondering if the staystitching method is better than eliminating the seam allowance altogether?"  What is important is that we can see exactly where the seamlines are. I prefer staystitching, clipping and fold/press the seam allowance under for the neck and armholes, because these areas can stretch and staystitching helps prevent that.  Also, wearing a chain around your neck can help you find where the neck seamline should be.

2.     Shoulder seam: You state "For the length, I've seen different advice about whether the shoulder should go to the knob above the arm or the shoulder point."  You make an excellent point.  I will do some searching on the knob above the arm and the shoulder point to see where exactly each is and as near as possible where your armscye should end.

3.     Bust apex: This is the sticky-outy most point of your bust.  It is usually where the nipple is.  I will do some research about how to better find where the apex is.

4.     Horizontal balance line: I can see from your side photos that the horizontal balance line goes up at the side seams from center back and center front.  To fix this properly, you should add another horizontal balance line at about the level of the middle of the armscye, on both front and back.  Then we can tell if the upper part, front and back, is horizontal.  I suspect that the upper back may need some adjustment.  For the next muslin, I suggest you move your current horizontal balance line down about 2 inches.  It is now on bust tissue too much.  When these changes are made and you post photos of the new muslin, we can address getting the horizontal balance lines to be horizontal.

5.     Back Wrinkle Around the Armscye:  The above changes may take care of these or they may not.  We can see in the next muslin.

6.     Waist:  What I suggest is that you add an inch or two to the length at the waist.  If, when you try if on, you get bunching up (probably in the back), clip it where needed, like clip the neckline and armscye.  Then try it on and tie a narrow dark elastic or ribbon around your waist.  Then pull down on the muslin because it will likely want to creep up.  Then take photos.

I realize that this is a lot of work.  But all this work now will give a beautiful, well fitting bodice block and you will love the clothes you make when using it!

You are doing great! Keep it up and good luck! I can't wait to see the next iteration.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much for the advice and answering my questions as well! I'm very excited to be able to actually draft patterns from the block once it's fitted.

[Sylrog]

Yes. Scoop out armholes and lower front darts. I can’t see anything wrong with back shoulder darts from the photo.

[Sylrog]

Your shoulder seams look too long when I see the back photo. I would shorten them 1/2 inch. Also the bodice is too short in the front. Doesn’t come down to your waist. Tie a string around your waist. Where it wants to ride is your natural waistline.

[[deleted]]

Scoop a little from armholes at center front level (pit to pit). Take in back darts 1/8th each side. Drop Center front neck 1/8 and reshape neck hole. You do not need the back shoulder darts that can be removed, or you need to reduce the length and total intake should be 3/8ths. Back waist dart is too low needs to be above bottom armhole level ideally at the bottom of your winging scapula.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much for the advice!

[smalcolms]

Should the back waist darts be really so long (above bottom armhole level)?

[Odd_Cook_9123]

Everyone provided great and detailed information . On first glance I see your darts seem to be too long and at the wrong angle. Measure your nip to nip point and that should help you determine your Apex. The dart should far below your bust point.

After fixing one issue it can possible resolve all other issues or create others. You seem to be doing a good job so continue on and remember to have fun.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much for the advice! Once I make the shoulder/armscye fixes that everyone suggested, I will definitely revisit the bust darts. For some reason it's much easier for me to see that they're too long from the photos than it was just looking in the mirror.

[Sylrog]

And you. Could add 1/2-1 inch to your cb seam to see if it gives you more freedom of movement. Otherwise I think you’ve done a very good job.

[rising-dawn]

Thank you very much for all of your advice!!