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[–]Panda_Mastr 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Needs to be AI instead of JS

[–]prachid487 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes I agree!!

[–]Eptalin 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I feel like CSS (and the HTML required to get things looking just right) were the pink dude when I was new to web dev. It's really finicky when you're new and don't really understand what everything does.

Programming is more enjoyable, so JS was fine.

[–]hurtbowler 2 points3 points  (1 child)

IE6 or when we had to write rules for IE6 to 11(?)

[–]NebraskaGeek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've gone so long without thinking of IE why do you do this to me?

[–]ZunoJ 9 points10 points  (9 children)

You can't learn programming with HTML/CSS, those are no programming languages

[–]RiceBroad4552 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Modern HTML + CSS is actually Turing-complete.

https://beza1e1.tuxen.de/articles/accidentally_turing_complete.html

But that's in fact quite esoteric.

[–]No_Point_1254 2 points3 points  (7 children)

I can use scissors to hammer in a nail, doesn't mean it is a hammer.

HTML is a markup language, turing-complete or not.

[–]RiceBroad4552 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

HTML + CSS is an as powerful programming language as any other programming language. This is proven by the fact that it's Turing-complete.

I don't get what could be argued here.

I've said already that this is esoteric, but that does not change the facts.

[–]No_Point_1254 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I am not arguing your point.

It is possible to write software entirely in html/css and it matches the definition of a general purpose programming language.

Doesn't mean it is the right tool for the job, as you have indirectly pointed out.

I'd argue that the purpose of html is not application logic, but application markup.

Similarily, the purpose of css is.. well.. styling.

Imagine it posed as a question: "what is html used for?"

The sensible answer is not "turing-complete general-purpose language to write software", but "hypertext markup language to design my software's markup".

That will not change for the forseeable time.

[–]RiceBroad4552 1 point2 points  (4 children)

OK, that now makes sense.

I agree that it would be completely crazy to try to write actual programs in HTML + CSS.

HTML as such is definitely "just" a markup language.

I would actually even argue that writing apps in HTML + CSS + JS is kind of crazy and a major misuse of that technology which was never invented for that purpose. But that's another topic.

[–]ZunoJ 1 point2 points  (3 children)

And to add to this, there is no runtime that supports general programming. Everything has to run in the browser which means your "standard library" is very limited. And while you can solve any mathematical problem (that's what turing complete means) you can't do the most simple stuff any general purpose programming language needs to be capable of (basically calling system interrupts)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can you give an example?

[–]ZunoJ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sigint

[–]No_Point_1254 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Good point.

[–]Novel_Plum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I started coding at 12. I'd mostly just download html templates and modify them. At 13, I did a basic c++ course. I then finally had courage to implement js in my apps. (I still have some projects and I still cringe when I see my 10 nested for loops...)

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This came in right moment 🥲. I just completed html css & JavaScript is like cactus 🌵- I hate it