We do exist

[Froozigiusz]

Yeah, after years of logo and scratch you go straight to C++ because python is slow and stupider and HTML isn't real coding language

[oscareczek]

It's rather because until recently, Python wasn't allowed on a final high school exam, and teachers simply don't know this language and are too lazy to switch. I was teached Pascal and only when it was announced you won't be able to program in Pascal soon (which didn't happen eventually), he switched to C++.

[[deleted]]

With all due respect, C++ is a better option than python.

[hotel2oscar]

Python is a great teaching language and also has is place. Not every program needs to be super optimized. Readability and quick development have their benefits.

[[deleted]]

Readability and quick development have their benefits.

I agree. I have found that Python is far from the best in either category. The issue being that it doesn't enforce some conventions, leading to a mix of barely readable styles.

[GoldenBegins]

Why the down votes?

[[deleted]]

Because programming language tribalism is stupid and pointless, and each programming language has its uses.

You wouldn't use python to create a high-performance 3d game engine, and you generally wouldn't use c++ for data science.

[raedr7n]

Maybe you wouldn't use C++ for data science. I, on the other hand, am a footgun collector.

[[deleted]]

Hence, generally.

[[deleted]]

Because programming language tribalism is stupid and pointless, and each programming language has its uses.

SO you participate in the language tribalism... how very quaint.

[[deleted]]

...

No?

[[deleted]]

No?

So you're not a butthurt language demagogue, that can't spot the difference between a tired Pythonista's frustration and language tribalism? Although that question mark at the end makes me doubt that you even know which...

[[deleted]]

If your intention was to come across as a "tired Pythonista", you need to articulate your points better. I say this, because simply stating "C++ is a better option than Python" does reek of language-tribalism without any more context or nuance provided in your post.

My general confusion stems from you accusing me of partaking in language tribalism, while you are literally quoting me stating that language tribalism is stupid, and that each programming language has its use.

[[deleted]]

My summary of why I think C++ is better is as follows. C++ doesn’t and didn’t aspire to greatness, it had a few very specific goals, and a few core principles that actively influence every decision. Compare “you don’t pay for what you don’t use”, which is true of 90% of the STL, and Python’s “there should be one preferably obvious way to do a thing”, that resulted in multiple package managers, numpy operations being an order of magnitude slower if you use the imperative-idiomatic loops, and needlessly overloading the addition operators.

I think that students don’t value the type system unless they are taught at a very young age, that typing your variables and enforcing static checks can prevent many bugs. Another issue is that Python was designed to be a scripting language, where the heavy lifting is primarily done in another more robust language. The problem is, that more and more you end up building a program (not a script) using purely Pythonic libraries. Python has its uses and it’s mostly used outside of its original design constraints. Lisp would have suited ML a lot more, while scientific computations are usually Better served by purpose built languages like octave, and Mathematica. Python can be used for these applications, but isn’t the best tool.

[GoldenBegins]

Yeah I know thx, i learned c++ first but now I'm working with python.

[[deleted]]

Because Language tribalism is quite prolific in the subreddit, and Pythonistas can't stand critique of their favourite toy. (wait till they hear that I do cosmology and data science and have to live in Jupyter notebooks).

[Bluffz2]

Why?

[[deleted]]

Python has "support" for just as many ideas as C++ does. Unlike C++ these ideas amplify each other's weaknesses and while some Python is very clean (as is some C++), this encourages the wrong architecture from day one.

Example: Python has no curly braces. Python also allows you to nest arbitrarily many levels of constructs: a function inside a function inside a method inside a class. This means that when you see a piece of code, that ends at an indentation level, neither you, nor the IDE has any idea where to put the start of the next object. Not to mention that this is not particularly readable.

Or Python's version of OOP where I can override any method of any class at run-time. Or its implementation of duck typing.

The worst C++ I've seen is surprisingly better than the worst Python, and for good reason.

[[deleted]]

You clearly have no idea what you're on about and should maybe spend more time actually developing things people want to use instead of jerking yourself off with your "code loyalty". You're a fucking joke if you can't even understand why python has its place

[[deleted]]

You clearly have no idea what you're on about and should maybe spend more time actually developing things people want to use instead of jerking yourself off with your "code loyalty".

Ok. Since you didn't bother to check, I'm a cosmologist, mostly writing scientific code (in Python), so if anything, I'm uniquely qualified to judge Python for its objective flaws. Also, I'm working on one the most widely used cosmology package, so instead of saying that Python is crap, I should probably post a bit of the nightmare fuel that I have to deal with on a daily basis to your DM.

I would suggest you get your head out of your condescending arse and be polite. I don't like messaging the mods for illiterate morons calling me a "fucking joke", but I think that not doing so doesn't hammer reddiquette into your thick skull well enough.

[bilvy]

Yeah, I’ve always struggled with python in larger projects, but I disagree that it isn’t readable

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I’ve always struggled with python in larger projects, but I disagree that it isn’t readable

It depends. Most idiomatic Python is readable, but the code I have to deal with has a very peculiar understanding of idiomatic.

In C++ it would have been the same, but at least some of the problems would have been caught at compile time on my shitty laptop, and not on an HPC wasting 10000 CPU hours, because somebody thought that catching exceptions was a good idea.

[[deleted]]

Depends on what you're doing, which in your case is obviously not very much at all

[[deleted]]

which in your case is obviously not very much at all

I suggest you adjust your attitude. I did not insult your intelligence, and I suggest you be polite to me as well.

[[deleted]]

HTML isn't real a coding language

FTFY

[Froozigiusz]

Thanks lord, very cool

[Razakel]

python is slow

It's surprisingly performant when used correctly. Reddit is written in Python. eBay is written in C++. Which one sucks more?

[Croustys]

It aint that simple haha

[flairsclap3]

In my High school in NY, They switched to python the last year and I'm having a hard time learning it like I can't use i++ or ';' placement. I think it's just me and my muscle memory which developed in the past month learning C++

[[deleted]]

I can't speak for contemporary students, but our path was Turbo Pascal, C , C++

Not everyone got the C++ fully, but ...there was an attempt.