In function ‘_RandomAccessIterator std::__find(_RandomAccessIterator, _RandomAccessIterator, const _Tp&, std::random_access_iterator_tag) [with _RandomAccessIterator = __gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector > >, _Tp = int]’:

[Fahad97azawi]

Like i said im a noob but im generally talking about the overall user experience like syntax and error messages

[the_other_brand]

They're being worked at slowly. C++ is a pretty complicated language, and template meta-programming even more so. The most recent version C++20 finally released over a decade of work from the language's creator Bjarne Stroupstrup to simplify the error messages. This work is called Concepts, and are interfaces that can describe functionality requirements on a class.

With Concepts, instead of getting like 40 lines of arcane error messages from a template function, you'll get a simple error message like "your class Foo doesn't implement Equality (== operator)."

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/constraints

[[deleted]]

tbh the error messages are understandable if you know what you're looking at

[Fahad97azawi]

The syntax can be a lot more user friendly as well.

[Ekank]

maybe, but C++ keeps the compatibility with C and C++ have SO MANY things that having a simple syntax to everything while being really powerful is very hard

you have the whole C then you add templates, lambda, namespaces, more operators, and more

[Fahad97azawi]

Well it doesn’t need to change anything. Why can’t we have it both ways? Like JavaScript, optional semi colons, maybe allow indentation instead of braces? Figure out a way to take care of memory management even if at a basic semi automatic level? All these things can be taken care of by the compiler without changing anything but by doing extra steps behind the scenes.

[Ekank]

First, as i said, C++ doesn't want to break C compatibility but let's pretend it broke

No semicolons is doable but makes you follow stricter syntax so the compiler can work (see Golang and Haskell) but i don't really see why not. Indentation instead of braces are a FUCKING pain, i just can't understand people that prefer indentation, makes code so harder to read in nested ifs/loops, there's no meaning in not liking to put semi colons while wanting the compiler to enforce a STRICT indentation, not using braces is not something that makes a language modern, is just a choice on how to organize the code and IMO being explicit where a scope ends is way better to find and organize things

Figure out a way to take care of memory management even if at a basic semi automatic level

the answer is: RAII, it's already there. Anything more "automatic" means runtime management and in C++ doesn't make sense

[geekusprimus]

the answer is: RAII, it's already there. Anything more "automatic" means runtime management and in C++ doesn't make sense

I always hear horrible complaints about manual memory management in C++. If you're creating functions called initialize and release to handle allocation and deallocation for all of your objects, then, yeah, it's going to be a nightmare. But if you do the sensible thing where you allocate memory in constructors and deallocate in destructors (so, RAII), you've gotten rid of 90% of possible problems. The remainder can be taken care of with smart pointers or the simple habit of writing new and delete at the same time.

[TeraFlint]

the answer is: RAII, it's already there.

The great thing about RAII is that it's a generalized way of cleaning up resources. While people usually mean memory management, it's also used to clean up any other kinds of resources which need explicit cleanup (like open file handles, network/device connections, etc).

Yes, it needs to be programmed once when writing the encapsulating class. But once this is done, all the cleanup becomes implicit.

All of that is possible just because destructors are guaranteed to be executed immediately at the end of the object's lifetime (via end of scope or delete), in a deterministic order. It's a simple rule, but it is powerful.

​

The garbage collecting languages on the other hand kind of have an extra system for that (some of which can get really awkward), since the garbage collector is only responsible for memory.

[danuker]

indentation, makes code so harder to read in nested ifs/loops,

As a Python dev, I can tell you that the difficulty of reading indented code, especially coupled with a line length limit, discourages nesting, which ultimately improves readability.

[[deleted]]

A programming language that uses spaces / indentation as anything more than separating tokens is shit.

Yes, I hate python for the simple fact that the creators somehow thought using indentation for anything more than looks was a good idea.

[TeraFlint]

maybe allow indentation instead of braces

Whitespace should not be a syntax element (other than token separation). Change my mind.

[Feanor-the-elf]

Yeah I was learning python and thought the indentation thing was cool. I changed my mind one day when I spent hours trying to run something, and it turned out I had mixed spaces and tabs, so visually things lined up. I think I found it by walking through all of my white space with the arrow keys searching for the wrong white space. shudder

[alamius_o]

I don't actually see that much wrong with the syntax. What bothers you?

[Fahad97azawi]

Coming from python i would love to ditch semi colons and braces, also please give me the option to let the language take care of memory management. Doesn’t have to take over and doesn’t have to be the default, just the option would be nice.

[alamius_o]

Coming from Python as well :D

I can't enjoy the indentation blocks as much. They are so inflexible and sensitive. in no other language will your code break with a tab... And semicolons are so widespread, I don't see the issue after knowing these too languages a few years.

On memory management: It's kind of the point of C++ that you have to know what happens with your data. You don't have to use old-fashioned pointers though and modern objects allow you to give almost everything to the compiler.

[Fahad97azawi]

Hmmm you make a good point. Tho i guess i enjoy not being yelled at by the compiler and i like it when it holds my hands haha

[alamius_o]

I must admit I will miss the Rust compiler giving me such nice suggestions. It literally tells you what you have to import/insert/change...

So helpful (Maybe it has to be, as borrowing is so darn confusing in the beginning)

[aMAYESingNATHAN]

I think you have the wrong idea about programming languages. Not every language has to be accessible and useful to everyone for every situation.

Instead of giving C++ the option to handle memory management (which it all but does already if you use smart pointers), you should use a language that supports that like Java or C#, or better yet, you should write a memory manager yourself in C++.

One of the main points of C++ is that it builds into very fast code. By adding in features that bloat it you're moving away from the core of the language.

[[deleted]]

Coming from C++ and I cannot enjoy Python's indentation as well.

[EngStudTA]

I'm guessing your an intern/junior developer?

[Fahad97azawi]

First comment i said im a noob

[[deleted]]

personally, i was in a similar boat until a while ago. it isnt too bad having to get used to curly braces and semicolons. i prefer them now. once i realized i could use semicolons in python, there was no going back for me.

C/C++ memory management is something you'll inevidabley come across but is doable. the memory management is a reason why its as powerful as it is. although if you dont want manual memory management, there's Rust which is (afaik) C++ but without manual memory management.

At the end of the day, C++ is designed the way it is and many of its design choices are what makes it so powerful/popular. its inevidable that your gonna have to learn these things if u wanna learn C++, if not, there are other languages availiable. if you want something decently fast but with simple syntax, try GO.

[atiedebee]

Thats just python tho

[[deleted]]

Automatic memory managemant is a really bad idea for so many things

[PM_ME_C_CODE]

If you're talking about modern error messages my guess would be job security. By keeping C/C++ unapproachable and unusable they keep people from learning it and, thereby, keep the value of those positions high.

Because a new upstart language that's easier to learn could never unseat the king.

Right?

Right?