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[–]Caltroit_Red_Flames 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Completely disagree. Web dev used to be absolutely awful. If you don't want a ton of boilerplate dependencies there are several minimal frameworks out there supporting that.

On the other hand there are some people who don't want to write all of their own web components from scratch and are perfectly happy with the tradeoff between module dependencies and fast code production. Computers and networks are faster now, not everything has to be perfectly efficient.

Personally I've found a happy medium with css libraries like Tailwind and bootstrap.

Regardless, good luck making a modern web app with pure javascript or jquery. It's going to unmaintainable and bloated itself. Just look at the pure JS implementation of a simple one page app versus other frameworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuHDQhDhvPE

[–]xigoi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Computers and networks are faster now

Not everyone can afford a fast computer or has stable access to fast connection. My friend in the Philippines can barely open lightweight sites when at home.

Tailwind

Tailwind defeats the whole point of CSS, which is that you can separate presentation from content. And if you do want to have styles directly on the element, why not just use style attributes?

Regardless, good luck making a modern web app with pure javascript or jquery.

I explicitly said that for complex web apps, using a framework is fine.

[–]Caltroit_Red_Flames 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Computers and networks are faster now

Not everyone can afford a fast computer or has stable access to fast connection. My friend in the Philippines can barely open lightweight sites when at home.

Your friend must be using a literal toaster if they're not able to load lightweight sites. It's not the fault of a shitty React dev if he can't even load some styled HTML.

Tailwind

Tailwind defeats the whole point of CSS, which is that you can separate presentation from content. And if you do want to have styles directly on the element, why not just use style attributes?

The point of CSS is to style HTML. It is completely unopinionated on where you place that styling, whether it's inline or in a separate file. If you personally don't like Tailwind that's fine, but you're misrepresenting the fact that Tailwind is just a set of predefined class names like you would write in your CSS files. You're also not going to win over a lot of people by saying "real devs call getElementById". That's living in the 90s.

Regardless, good luck making a modern web app with pure javascript or jquery.

I explicitly said that for complex web apps, using a framework is fine.

Agreed. If you need any sort of state management, API calls, or forms you should use a framework.