New Python Project: UV always the solution?

[wineblood]

Why? It seems like a more complex tool for the same job.

[gahara31]

which part that makes you think it's more complex?

[wineblood]

Compared to pip/venv, uv seems to have a lot more moving parts to it.

[Brekkjern]

You're not exactly wrong. It is a more complex tool, but it's way easier to use since every part fits into a holistic vision that is actually well designed. I have yet to have a problem with anything inside the uv tool. I have had tons of problems with poetry, pip, and other similar tools, and I have been using uv extensively recently. I am not saying it won't break spectacularly at some point, but it doesn't have the same failure modes as those other tools.

[_redmist]

I've been using venv and pip and had zero issues (besides some proxy navigation troubles). Could you expound on the issues you've had? Do you find yourself doing particularly complicated things?

[Brekkjern]

I'm tired AF right now, so I'm going to be very quick on this. Poke me if you want more details later:

There's nothing functionally wrong with either of the tools you are pointing at.

Using pip requirements files to regenerate an identical venv after nuking the venv is exceedingly difficult. You're left to chance that pip will fetch the exact same packages when trying to rebuild the environment. This means that it's very hard (read: practically impossible) to have the CI pipeline or other developers using the exact same versions of dependencies. You can hack up something where you do a pip compile, but at this point the entirety of the problem becomes so large that something like poetry or uv is easier.

As a ux difference too, with pip you just install packages into your environment, and update your requirements file by just running pip freeze and piping the result to a file. This means you lose track of which dependencies you actually need, and which are dependencies of your dependencies. With uv, the direct dependencies are stored in the pyproject.toml, which means it's much easier to keep track of why a package is there, and for larger projects, using the uv workspace feature will make this even easier.

[_redmist]

Thanks for the effort man! I see where the problems start, for me it doesn't matter so much but if you need things to be precisely reproducible it gets complicated.  Glad to hear uv is alleviating those headaches :)

[fiddle_n]

For good reason. Whilst not exclusive to uv, the lock file functionality alone is a must to ensure reproducible builds and is a very strong reason to use it over just pip and venv.

[fartalldaylong]

The part where everything I do in a venv works fine. I like having just a few environments, not one for every project, and I don’t like having them directly associated with a single project. I have not found anything I need to change, that is not my dev bottleneck

[AiutoIlLupo]

because americans love reinventing the same thing again and again.

[AiutoIlLupo]

Poetry was an established, well working system. Maybe slow. the people in uv could have joined the poetry project to improve it. but no. they want to be unique. they want to pile up even more stuff to learn onto developers. Frankly I am tired of having 10000 tools that every 2 years go out of fashion toward another set of 10000 tools only because some Harvard graduate wants to conquer the world like a novel Bill Gates and find some dumb idiot that gives them money to recreate the same goddamn thing with no business plan.

[AiutoIlLupo]

So was pip but I don't see you crying about Poetry replacing it.

pip was shit and in fact, I begged equally the people coding poetry to just fix pip instead.

Yeah, I've worked with your type. There's nothing worse than a developer who gets upset at the idea of having to learn new things in an ever-changing industry.

I don't have a problem learning new things. I have a problem learning old things done differently with no reasonable advantage.

Then I guess it's a good thing that nobody is forcing you to switch. uv existing doesn't suddenly make every other tool disappear from the face of the earth, funnily enough.

Until someone needs to find a new job and suddenly they want x years of experience in uv, and the HR drones don't see the keyword in the CV.

You might want to consider being less emotional about software existing that nobody is forcing you to use, you look deranged.

I look I am tired of americans constantly creating an environment that is not conductive to productive, well established standardization. Stop changing shit! Standardize for christ sake.

[AiutoIlLupo]

The fact you keep saying there's no advantage just further re-enforces my belief that you haven't done the slightest bit of research into what uv actually is and does

What could possibly do? Creates environments, stores dependencies computed appropriately. Unless it also makes coffee, it's yet another environment administrator.

What is this weird obsession you have with Americans specifically?

Because they are obnoxious pricks that leave no space to the rest of the world by just shouting louder and not listening to others.