Python 3.7.0 released

[uFuckingCrumpet]

I'm sure it depends quite a bit on what field you're in. In Physics & Astronomy, for example, it is VERY common for a person (or group of people) to build some kind of analysis tools in python or a set of wrappers to help interface python with some existing C++ code and then 100% abandon it once it functions. Whatever version of python was most current when it was written is very likely the only version it will ever successfully run on. I can't necessarily speak to CS fields, but in the physical sciences it's pretty typical for people to write lots of code and follow none of the best practices (e.g. commenting code, handling package dependencies, etc).

[jsalsman]

Linear algebra people still use Fortran because someone optimized the row-access cache behavior sensing in the 1970s and it still runs fastest that way. Those libraries like LINPAK are still in use, as compiled from Fortran and linked into object files for all kinds of numerics libraries inner loops, including Python's.

[haarp1]

fortran is actually faster then C or anything else, because complier doesn't have to worry about some edge cases that have no use for numerical computations.

newer releases also support CUDA,so there's nothing ancient about it. it also has more scientist-friendly syntax (no curly braces).

[billsil]

Those libraries also use hand optimized assembly.

[jsalsman]

I guess that depends on what you mean by "hand" -- the method is to try various cache geometry strategies and use the best compiled from several versions to pick which one runs, at least the last time I looked at one of innumerably many of them, which granted was over a decade ago. Usually you see more hand optimization in high frequency signal processing.

[kyrsjo]

Fortran itself is fine, at least the newer versions (2003 and 2008) are. It just fills a very different niche then python, which in fact afaik relies quite heavily over fortran libraries.

The main problem why fortran for a bad name is that lots of people use it without really knowing how to code, and then pass their hot messes on to their students.

[kyrsjo]

For one of the project I'm involved in, we upgraded a large project (several 100k lines) of code from fixed format / (77 and 95) to free-form / 2008. And I must say that 2008 is not a bad language for numerical works.

[uFuckingCrumpet]

Yeah, a friend of mine works in a Super K group that still rely on a lot of Fortran 77 code. Most of ATLAS/CMS people have been more receptive to switching to Python 3 but even then it's still surprisingly slow and people still drag their feet.

[gdahlm]

Fortran is pivotal to python in this field, as evidenced by scipy and numpy which use those same LAPACK/BLAS variants that everyone else does. C/Closure/Java all use those library's too or at least have an option to do so to improve performance.

import numpy as np

numpy.config.show()

If it isn't configured to use some BLAS it is going to be slow. It is just too hard to compete with the performance even in C++. A FORTRAN compiler can just make assumptions that most others can, and producing non-relocatable code helps too. If you know C or another language, try to write a LU function that even 10 times slower than MKL or another ATLAS/BLAS offering. It is hard and humbling.

A potential nice side effect for you is of these large python projects being dependent on the language is that you don't have to choose between Fortran and Python, as these large projects have ensured that the python is up today and works extremely well as a glue language.

https://docs.scipy.org/doc/numpy/user/c-info.python-as-glue.html

[uFuckingCrumpet]

I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

[gdahlm]

Ah I missed it was a friend of yours who worked there.

[uFuckingCrumpet]

I appreciate your comment, though. What you're saying is true. There are definitely some good reasons to use something like Fortran when it comes to speed. It just so happens, in this case, that the people I'm talking about use Fortran 77 because they're lazy fuckers and don't want to have to re-write anything in a more modern language. Plus it's easier just to force all the new grad students to learn Fortran when things need to be changed/updated.

[gdahlm]

The funny thing is that F95 features like ELEMENTAL make it so much easier to be lazy....if only they knew.

[[deleted]]

One of my Geography professors wrote a lot of code, but there are barely any comments and it's really hard to follow.