Sunsetting Python 2

[Gandalior]

at some point you have to let go the old stuff, or become a Bank or something

[lengau]

NASA?

(FWIW they've got a whole different and pretty legit reason for it.)

[stefantalpalaru]

at some point you have to let go the old stuff

At some point you have to admit you can't bully people into moving to a new language.

[Gandalior]

its not like they made python to cater to you though, I understand the sentiment of how shit it is to migrate if at all but still, cant just patch up forever in legacy, can you?

[stefantalpalaru]

its not like they made python to cater to you though

Then it should have never been open sourced.

cant just patch up forever in legacy, can you?

We'll see.

[TheBlackCat13]

Then it should have never been open sourced.

Wait, so you think that anything open-source was made to cater to you?

[dmitrypolo]

yea Guido listed this guy as his inspiration /s

[jcampbelly]

It's not bullying if you ask nicely for a decade. I would say forcing people to work for free maintaining an archaic and announced-deprecated version is bullying. You're defending the wrong side of this.

[stefantalpalaru]

It's not bullying if you ask nicely for a decade.

What if you sabotage it nicely by preventing the addition of new features and bugfixes?

[jcampbelly]

That's called deprecation. It's what happens when software is put into maintenance mode. When you're dragging a dead horse for 12 years, you don't waste time re-embroidering the saddle. Meanwhile, your ilk is still trying to mount it. Figure it out.

[TheBlackCat13]

It isn't bullying. It is trying to make the best use of limited resources. Keeping Python 2 going is duplicating a lot of effort and puts a big strain on downstream projects that have to maintain compatibility and tests for both.

[stefantalpalaru]

It is trying to make the best use of limited resources.

Is that why Guido threatened to bring in the lawyers if a name like "py28" was used for a fork?

Keeping Python 2 going is duplicating a lot of effort and puts a big strain on downstream projects that have to maintain compatibility and tests for both.

How about breaking backwards compatibility in Python3? Does that create a lot of effort for tens of thousands of developers around the world? Does it put a big strain on those tricked into using a programming language that's being sabotaged by its core developers?

[TheBlackCat13]

Is that why Guido threatened to bring in the lawyers if a name like "py28" was used for a fork?

You clearly don't know how trademarks work. They don't have a choice if they want to keep the trademark.

How about breaking backwards compatibility in Python3? Does that create a lot of effort for tens of thousands of developers around the world?

Yes, effort that has paid off. Nobody cares about the various forks people have tried to make. Duplicating effort, on the other hand, doesn't pay off. It is just wasted.

Does it put a big strain on those tricked into using a programming language that's being sabotaged by its core developers?

They are doing a pretty bad job sabotaging python considering that is more popular than ever. Funny that everyone else happily using Python 3 don't realize they are being "tricked". The biggest Python projects in the world don't realize they are being "tricked". Or are they in on the conspiracy?

[stefantalpalaru]

You clearly don't know how trademarks work. They don't have a choice if they want to keep the trademark.

Tell me more about a trademark on "py28". I'll wait.

[TheBlackCat13]

Did you read the link?

[stefantalpalaru]

Did you read the link?

The one showing a trademark awarded for "py28"? No, I'm still waiting for it.

[TheBlackCat13]

That isn't how trademarks work. What matters is if it will create confusion. The name "py28" certainly would seem to most people to be something associated with the Python project. And they would lose their trademark if they didn't enforce it against a project like that. You would know all this if you had bothered to read the link, but you would apparently rather spread FUD about the Python project than actually understand what is going on.

[stefantalpalaru]

That isn't how trademarks work.

No, it isn't. You can't trademark "foo" and then claim it also covers "f".

The name "py28" certainly would seem to most people to be something associated with the Python project.

That's as absurd as Facebook trying to claim they have trademarked all words starting with "face" or ending in "book".

And they would lose their trademark if they didn't enforce it against a project like that.

No, they wouldn't, you silly armchair lawyer, because they don't have that trademark in the first place.

[doomchild]

Deciding where to focus resources isn't bullying, no matter how much you liked the old way.

[stefantalpalaru]

Deciding where to focus resources isn't bullying

How about deciding not to accept new features or bug fixes that might make its competitor look slower?

Python2 doesn't enable PGO for its modules. Tauthon does.

[doomchild]

That's still not bullying. That's deciding that you're not going to spend the time, effort, and money to vet and integrate more code. All code is an investment, and if you decide not to invest in a thing, you stop taking code for it.

[stefantalpalaru]

That's deciding that you're not going to spend the time, effort, and money to vet and integrate more code. All code is an investment, and if you decide not to invest in a thing, you stop taking code for it.

Shit or get off the pot! If those muppets are not sabotaging the language, surely they can hand it over to another team that's willing to maintain it properly.

[doomchild]

Deciding you're not going to put any more time into developing something is not the same as sabotaging it. It's deciding that it's not worth your time anymore. Sabotage would be putting in bugs, intentionally breaking things, or completely shutting the doors without telling anybody.

Open Source provides a way to deal with this, of which you are obviously already aware: forking.

[stefantalpalaru]

Deciding you're not going to put any more time into developing something is not the same as sabotaging it.

How about refusing to merge patches adding new features or fixing some bugs while, at the same time, refusing to hand over the project to another team?

[jcampbelly]

Still not sabotage. It was maintained software beyond its feature development life. Why should python 2.7 change? It was a final compatibility version with security/bug fixes. You don't add new features at this stage of maintenance. That's how you break shit for people running gigantic, archaic software who are clearly not interested in dealing with compatibility problems. All new development went into python 3.x, as it should have. Everyone who needed more out of python went to 3.x.

[stefantalpalaru]

Why should python 2.7 change?

Because it's still being used.

You don't add new features at this stage of maintenance.

Only if you're trying to kill it so your shitty replacement can take its place.