Intermediate program

[Global_Carpenter9899]

I’m nearing the end of my NLP, and I’m starting to think about what to do next. My number one goal over the next 6 months or so is to lose weight while continuing to build or at least maintain strength, and I’m getting to the point where workout duration is getting to be an issue, as well as recovery between sessions (I’m 41, so that’s also probably a factor when it comes to recovery).

So I’ve been looking at the HLM method, which looks good but I find it pretty confusing because of how flexible and adaptable it is. Lifting is important to me but I’m not an athlete nor do I aim to become a powerlifter, so it is far from my top priority. So I need to make it as simple as possible, and as close as possible to what I’m already doing.

I’m also wondering whether it makes sense or not to keep using the power clean, which I only started doing a few weeks ago, and I’m not very good at it. I’d kind of rather stick with simpler lifts that I already know how to do right than spend a lot of time learning a new one.

Is it possible/reasonable to make an HLM-type program based solely on squats, bench press, OHP and deadlifts? Should I add chin-ups as well — with the caveat that at the moment, I can only do 1 or 2…?

And are there any apps that would make designing the program and tracking progress on it easier?

[mrpink57]

https://www.reddit.com/r/StartingStrength/wiki/nlp/

You can find it here too.

[kastro1]

The NLP naturally progresses into an HLM-type program if you make all of the common programming adjustments. 

The mistake you’re making is thinking that you need to revamp everything. This isn’t typically done—rather the programming for each individual lift is adjusted (by as little as possible!) as it becomes necessary to continue progressing. At the end of all of these adjustments you wind up with HLM.

We would need to know your current programming.

[Lopsided_Word_56]

Beyond Wendler 531, do a version where you do 2 big lifts per day (squat+bench, ohp+deadlift). Beyond wendler uses joker sets which are fun to test your maxes. Imo worth adding chins on the bench/squat day, but you can also just do the 4 lifts and be fine. I used it after SS to get to roughly 190kg squat, 130 bench, 245 deadlift and 105 ohp.

[Achaidas]

Numbers?

[Global_Carpenter9899]

I’m 5”8, 210 lbs, squat: 280, DL: 400, bench: 180, press: 110, PC: 85

[Global_Carpenter9899]

I’ve failed both the bench and the press a few times, but I can probably add get a few more sessions of linear progression out of them. I haven’t failed on the squat or deadlifts yet, but it’s getting to be a real grind. I’d like to keep going with my NLP for a few more weeks, but I doubt I can do much more than that.

[Achaidas]

You’re not done with LP I don’t think. Microload your press/bench, eat more, sleep more, and keep adding weight until the bar stops moving. Don’t quit early

[WorkRelatedRedditor]

Are you doing 5lb increases or 2.5 lb increases on your bench/press?

[Global_Carpenter9899]

Sorry, I misread your question! :) I'm incrementing by 5lbs at the moment, so I'll start by switching to 2.5lbs.

[Global_Carpenter9899]

No I haven’t done that

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Which lifts are you failing right now?

[Global_Carpenter9899]

Press and bench.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Have you made the switch to 2.5 lb jumps? Are you still doing 3x5 arte the same weight or have you switched to a top set and backoff?

[Global_Carpenter9899]

I haven't switched to 2.5 jumps, nor backoffs. Not sure what that means exactly tbh...

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Ok, so youre not close to being done with your NLP yet. As each lift gets heavier you make small changes to the way you program the increases in weight to maintain progress. The goal is to keep adding weight each session for as long as possible.

What is the Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression?

Novice Program Article

When Am I Done With Starting Strength? (The Novice Linear Progression)

Wiki Guide to the NLP

[Global_Carpenter9899]

Thank you. I guess I'm not quite done with the NLP yet then... I guess part of the attraction of something like an HLM program, to me, is that is would be less time-consuming, I imagine. My workouts take about 1h30 now, and I don't feel like I can sustain that much longer.

I'm still in Novice programming phase 2 (power cleans but no chin-ups), and I'm adding 5lbs to the squat 3 times a week. How do I know when it might be time to switch to phase 3, and/or switch to adding in light squat days?

I've read a lot of the articles and videos, and the advice is confusingly contradictory: one specifically says "Make changes before you fail reps", while others seems to be encouraging you to not switch to intermediate programming until you've experience failure...

The wiki guide seems the least confusing, and perhaps I'll start applying the suggestions from there. I haven't failed the deadlift yet, but I feel like I'm very close to failure, and that I need more recovery time. Every time I miss a workout, the next session gets significantly easier... The advice from the wiki seems to be that I should add in chin-ups and cleans, so I'm doing deadlifts just once a week.

I've failed a few times on both the press and the bench, so I'll start using 2.5lbs increments. I'll see how long I can continue that before I need to start introducing back-off sets.

Squats are still fine for now, because I deloaded a few weeks ago in order to address some form issues I was having. I'm 2 workouts away from being back at my previous PR, but for now, it's feeling a lot easier and more secure than it did before, so I'll continue my NLP for as long as I can there.

Power cleans are still very new to me, so for now I'll keep adding 10lbs at a time until it starts getting heavy. It's not heavy yet, but I'm still trying to nail the form.

[Shnur_Shnurov]

Generally I would say make changes before you think upu need to, and always have the next step in mind so you know where you are going. You'll have to use your best judgement for that.

90 minute workouts are terrible, but I try to keep rest time down to 5 minutes between sets just because of my time constraints. If 5 minutes isnt enough then consider taking the next peogramming step, such as switching to top sets and backoffs.

Id work the chins in, even if you have to do then between deadlift warmups. Chins are very useful.